Queens - am I committed here no matter what?

[kurto]

villain over short sample is 29/27. He's only been at the table for 15 minutes or so but he's already 3 bet people 3 times and two of them have been to me. This will be his FOURTH 3-bet.

Seat 1: not him ($20)
Seat 2: not him ($115.85)
Seat 4: not him ($24.45)
Seat 5: ME ($50)
Seat 6: HIM ($61.05)

Seat 1 is the button.

I have Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG. I raise to $4.

Villain (UTG+1) raises to $6 (again, this is the 3rd time to me alone.)

folds to me. I 4 bet to $18.75.

FLOP- (approx $38)
J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

My question... does it matter what I do at this point? By 4 betting and with this flop- am I committed?

[barryc83]

You raise to $2 (Im assuming then he makes it $6 so pot = $8 correct??? You're wanting to know how to get the money in here right? C/r is pretty sexy against a guy this aggro (you're only fading 6 outs). Had he been 3betting people opening from EP or just LP open raisers? Bc that cold call kinda sucks, but you gotta take a stand sometime.

[derosnec]

just push it. that's a good flop for you. i'm not worried about AA/KK given his maniac play. if he has a jack, that's nice. the other 900 times he won't have one.

[xeanatic]

go all in or just call his 3bet 4 betting QQ like this is not a good play I think.
By 4 betting like this you are commited and can afford to check because he will shove think you have to go all in on this flop.

[kurto]

Actually, my question is do I want to get all in here no matter what?

All I know is that he's a player that's now 3 bet someone PF 4 times in about 15 minutes (from various positions).

Essentially the question is... do I treat QQ vs this player (and this flop) the same as AA?

I really don't have a problem with taking a stand against this kind of player. Thrilled with QQ. Just not sure if, having gotten here... am I committed for 1 buyin (if the flop was AKJ single suited in a suit I didn't have I might check fold)...

Just not sure if this is wise...

[barryc83]

Well I think 4betting pf to just c/f this flop kinda sucks. He's loose and has been 3betting a lot in a short time frame. Has he showdown any of his hands after 3betting? Has anyone 4bet him yet (Im assuming no)?

I think I like c/r here the best hoping he puts you on AK, I might even check the turn if it checks through. I think he bluffs a decent bit on this flop.

[derosnec]

i don't like going for a C/R here because given our 4-bet pf, there is a strong chance he'll check behind. I say pop him now and let him call with a bunch of pockets and some suited cards as well, hell even A5 (I've seen weirder). either way, once you 4bet him pf, there really is nothing he can do postflop to turn his pf call into a +EV one (assuming he wasn't doing it with AA/KK).

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I think 4betting pf to just c/f this flop kinda sucks. He's loose and has been 3betting a lot in a short time frame. Has he showdown any of his hands after 3betting? Has anyone 4bet him yet (Im assuming no)?

I think I like c/r here the best hoping he puts you on AK, I might even check the turn if it checks through. I think he bluffs a decent bit on this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

He had not shown down any 3 bet hands. Either he took it preflop or before the river. I was the first to 4 bet him.

Prior to a few months ago, I was playing full ring. At full ring, you almost NEVER got 3 bet and if you did it was AA or KK 97% of the time. So adjusting to the more frequent 3 betting at 6 max and what that means post flop is a little newer to me...

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
either way, once you 4bet him pf, there really is nothing he can do postflop to turn his pf call into a +EV one (assuming he wasn't doing it with AA/KK).

[/ QUOTE ]

That's actually what I wanted to know. As such, by 4 betting I am pot committing myself assuming no AKJ flop...