Should I CB? A Quiz. - Page 8

ettorek · #71 12-07-2006, 09:36 AM

Nice thread.
I think that to evaluate my answers may help to know my numbers: I'm 28/19/2.1 on 15K hands.

H1: CB - He call my raise preflop and checked postflop: I'm OOP but CB all the time ready to fold to a reraise.
H2: CB - I've position so CB is a default move here.
H3: No CB- I missed the trips and the board may have helped with Ax the villain so I just check.
H4: No CB - The blinds didn't believe to my standard rise and I missed so better check and reevaluate the turn.
H6: CB - I'm death vs AQ but ahead with a lot of other hands so CB
H7: CB - scared board for me but also for the villain, so I bet
H8: CB - I'm OOP and a CB it's necessary to see where I'm.

4_2_it · #72 12-07-2006, 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and folding to a c/r wastes a good draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point about having to fold to a check raise is valid.

However, I do not consider hero's hand here to be that good of a draw. It's the type of draw that rarely wins more than a small amount when it hits.

NL Newbie · #73 12-07-2006, 10:58 AM

GRUNCHED - Summary - details below
H1 - Bet.
H2 - Check
H3 - Bet
H4 - Bet
H5 - Check(HU i bet)
H6 - Bet
H7 - Undecided.
H8 - Check.

This is suchhhhh a weak part of my game, im such a Cbetting noob its unreal. However at NL$cash for about 3full weeks so learn with experience huh :S

H1 - Yeah go ahead and rep the K, fd out there but i think your folding alot of better hands here(pp's etc) and even FD a fair bit... Unknown opponent but whatever.

H2 - Check it, your not giving much to 67s type hands that are folding as soon as you bet, but you'll often be called by PP's. Of course not knowing villans makes this one pretty tough as will he just fold PP's or will he float you?

H3 - Yeh rep the A or K, make better hands fold.

H4 - Hmmm went around in circles on this one. We've got so much equity right now but if called, we're vs what? OESD/FDs/Sets? So is our equity worth betting? yeh i guess it is, go ahead and bet build a pot.

H5 - 3 guys, crap hand? I just give up - HU ill bet and make better hands(Yet still crappy) fold.

H6 - I bet this 80% of the time, often folding better hands or building a pot for our OESD. Maybe even ahead right now.

h7 - Not folding a spade, may be behind... could be ahead though? Hmm many would bet this w/[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] but unknown Grrr.
I dunno really, id prob fire out here then be done with it or try get a cheap SD. Then again if we check maybe they semi bluff us with a Spade and give up on river? Hmm no idea [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

H8 - 2 players, missed flop, draws out there - Im done with it, Check.

Rip it apart so i can imporve this Cbeting crap! So clueless in general with cbetting specially after week holiday.

ama0330 · #74 12-07-2006, 11:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]

All answers asume villans aren't rampant calling stations.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably the most important point of the whole thread.

Mrage · #75 12-07-2006, 11:15 AM

Great reply. I think you hit the nail on the head.
[ QUOTE ]
H1

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero... bets 3.75

K high flops are great for cbetting, because people don't play Kx much. This one may require a second barrel if it looks like he's drawing.

H2

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($4.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero... bets 2.25. This is a flop that looks like it missed him. I'll represent 99.

H3

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($4.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero... easiest cbet evar. 4 dolla. They always put you on AK.

H4

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($6.5, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero... 4.50, reraise me at your peril, cause I'm pushing.

H5

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero... depends on villians. This doesn't look like a flop that would hit me, but I could hit a gutshot and stack a slowplayed set or something. OTOH it probably missed villians too.... I check.

H6

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero... bets 4. They always put you on AK. I like my hand and may call a reraise, depending on stacks.

H7

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($6.5, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero... I've got to bet big or go home. 50-50.
H8

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, 1 folds, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, 2 folds.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($6.75, 3 players)
Hero... OOP, I'm giving up on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wolfram · #76 12-07-2006, 11:29 AM

Let me just say that I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] pokey's analysis.

jdefoe · #77 12-07-2006, 11:33 AM

H1: 50% of the time I do 50% I don't. It depends. if villan is a station, no, if he's a tag, yes. The board is semi coordinated, and is scary versus callers with a loose range.

H2: I c-bet 100% of time, no draws and unlikely to have helped villan

H3: I don't c-bet here, an ace, king, and two hearts are on board, i check and fold to a bet on the turn.

H4: I bet/3bet all in here if raised

H5: I check. You have 2 opponents and a draw to the nuts. I def check here since you can stack them. Aswell, overcards can come to the T...if you hit your hand, and the Ace comes, you may well get some action.

H6: gutshot to the nut straight and a pair, I check this. I dont want to be checkraised off this. Very likely to have hit villan.

H7: I c-bet and check the hand down if called. Dangerous board. Usually you only get action when you're beat

H8: You have a gutshot to the nut str8 first to act, with 3 villans on a medium card board. I check

Esmerelda · #78 12-07-2006, 02:20 PM

Obviously my current table image matters, people does sometimes notice when I c-bet the first 10-20 times.

1-6, in position with no read or significant preflop action I am c-betting these always if they have no reads on me.

If people are calling my c-bets a lot, then I am c-betting 1, 4 and 6 for sure and the others sometimes.

1) I c-bet. The flop isn't that good for my opponents range either. I can drive out some of the gutshots which are bountiful. Even if called I still have an overcard and If I am getting to many calls a lot of them are likely to be from pairs smaller than my Q giving me lots of outs and if my image is really bad I am getting calls from people who are actually behind like AJ, Axs etc.

4) I have so many likely outs here, and 9 to the nuts, that I am looking to build this pot ASAP and will go to the felt on the flop if necessary.

6) Again lots of outs and if my image is bad then I am getting called by small PP and Ax a lot.

The OOP hands are a bit different.

7) I check this maybe 1/2 the time hoping to induce bluffs oddly a little less often if I have a bad image since I am likely to get calls from smaller pair. I like to show that I can be patient once in a while and this situation seems like a good time to do it. I don't like giving free card with the flush draw but it is too expensive to drive out and with two opponents you are lot more likely to be behind already or facing strong draw (JsTs or As9h for example). Implied odds are a reason to let this pot sit small.

8)This is a drawy flop which hits a lot of opps ranges. You do have 2 overcards and a broadway draw if called but with 2 opps neither who have acted I check this one like 2 out of 3. After all I wouldn't want them to think I c-bet like a zombie.

ajmargarine · #79 12-07-2006, 02:55 PM

These aren't really simple and obvious. CB'ing too much is a leak. As is CB'ing too little. Good players will disagree and people play differently so a hand or two might fit into their metagame in a different way.

Anyway, here's my take on what I think the "answers" to this quiz are. Like I said earlier, I thought a good distribution was 4 yes's and 4 no's. Nitpicking these answers is of course welcome. Here's the breakdown:

[ QUOTE ]
Assume full stacks at a NL50 table. Hero just sat down and has no reads. Do you CB in these spots?

If you don't CB a hand, why not?

H1

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero...

Yes. Take a stab at it and rep AK. He'll often fold out a better hand at this point like 22-88. 

H2

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($4.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero...

No. On a paired broadway flop, you should often check behind with a KK-type hand. This will get you two streets of value from 88 and lose the least when they have the Q. So, I like a check here. They are never folding a better hand to a CB. You can delay your CB til the turn, or check it down and hope your A9 holds up agst his JT. 

H3

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($4.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero...

Yes. Rep the monster. Take your stab at it. Ace high flops are good to CB on. 

H4

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($6.5, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero...

Yes. Bet it, we don't care if they c/r, cuz then we push with a billion outs. 

H5

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero...

Yes. Our hand is meh. The board is total trash and it goes check/check to us. I would lean toward CB'ing this and taking one shot. Hopefully that gets us to the river for free to hit our gutshot or takes it down enough on the flop. This is probably the most meh CB of the bunch. 

H6

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero...

No. Let's see the turn here for sure. We can't really bet this for value, we're too weak. We can't afford to bet this for protection, because his draw could be better than our draw. And a better hand never folds if we CB. We might bet here maybe to build a pot, so that we get paid a bit if we hit a straight; but that's pretty meh.

Let's just try to see the river in this one. Check flop, call a turn bet is a decent plan. 

H7

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($6.5, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero...

No. Let's check it. If it checks thru and checks to us on the turn, we can bet the non-spades and most other cards.

Big hands, big pots. Small hands, small pots. Red jacks on an all spade Q-hi board 3-way is a small hand. 

H8

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, 1 folds, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, 2 folds.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($6.75, 3 players)
Hero...

No. 3-way action. You got squat. C/f to action here and move on. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Crimsonjade · #80 12-07-2006, 02:59 PM

Interesting lines on 2 and 7 AJ. I think I will take these into consideration in the future.