TPTK, best line?

RobA · #1 10-27-2007, 10:41 AM

10-20 in AC. 10 handed for this hand. Game is a little tight right now, maybe 3-4 to flop on average, not much post flop action.

I get A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP. EP limps (seen him limp J8o from MP; limping too many hands to be very good). I raise. New player to my immediate left (MP2) (20'sish white kid) 3-bets (its like his 3rd hand). SB folds. BB calls (loose-passive, definite donator). EP calls. I call. 4 to flop for 12.5 SB.

Flop Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. BB checks. EP checks.

What is my best line here and what should I do, given various responses by MP2 and the rest of the table, for the rest of the hand?

Thank you for your comments.

ssmallz · #2 10-27-2007, 11:58 AM

20ish white kids are usually very aggro. I like leading here and hoping he raises AK or 3 bet me light w/KQ. Even if he's got KK he's protecting our equity by folding out middle pair hands that would be correct to call 1 bet. I prolly just call here if he raises and check the turn. Not too many free cards to worry about. I'm almost certainly going to showdown w/this hand unless theres some weird action on the turn or river.

Aaron W. · #3 10-27-2007, 01:16 PM

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Even if he's got KK he's protecting our equity by folding out middle pair hands that would be correct to call 1 bet.

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I don't think you gain much of anything if KK knockes out middle pair. Almost all the equity goes to him.

Entity · #4 10-27-2007, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
20ish white kids are usually very aggro. I like leading here and hoping he raises AK or 3 bet me light w/KQ. Even if he's got KK he's protecting our equity by folding out middle pair hands that would be correct to call 1 bet. I prolly just call here if he raises and check the turn. Not too many free cards to worry about. I'm almost certainly going to showdown w/this hand unless theres some weird action on the turn or river.

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I think checkraising is going to be a lot better here with TPTK+BDFD. On a Q-high board EP raise vs EP 3bet live you're rarely going to see raises with AK and hands that you would hope that raise you, but I think he'll still bet any pocket pair and often AK on the flop here when you check, as well as KQs if that's in his range.

Rob

private joker · #5 10-27-2007, 04:15 PM

Rob, I don't see the BDFD but I agree with a checkraise. This is a super dry flop. Only if BB managed to dive in with 54s does anyone have more than 3-4 outs against us when we're ahead. I like getting a lot of chips in our pot.

drbk2 · #6 10-27-2007, 04:53 PM

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Rob, I don't see the BDFD but I agree with a checkraise. This is a super dry flop. Only if BB managed to dive in with 54s does anyone have more than 3-4 outs against us when we're ahead. I like getting a lot of chips in our pot.

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Isn't this the classic way ahead way behin scenario? I think one thing that RobA has to mention is that with the exception of a few people, 3 betting ranges in the Borgata 10 20 game is very very narrow. I think check calling down or betting/calling a raise on the flop then calling down is the only two ways to go. If this turns into a big pot you really have no chance of winning.

private joker · #7 10-27-2007, 05:10 PM

dr -- if it was heads up, I agree with you. But there are 2 other people in the pot besides the PF 3-bettor, so we want them to donate.

SNOWBALL · #8 10-27-2007, 08:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
10-20 in AC. 10 handed for this hand. Game is a little tight right now, maybe 3-4 to flop on average, not much post flop action.

I get A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP. EP limps (seen him limp J8o from MP; limping too many hands to be very good). I raise. New player to my immediate left (MP2) (20'sish white kid) 3-bets (its like his 3rd hand). SB folds. BB calls (loose-passive, definite donator). EP calls. I call. 4 to flop for 12.5 SB.

Flop Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. BB checks. EP checks.

What is my best line here and what should I do, given various responses by MP2 and the rest of the table, for the rest of the hand?

Thank you for your comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should checkraise and get the donators in there to pad the pot. They will pay the max for their silly hands. Betting will either let the donators draw cheap for one bet, or will just get your HU against a better hand.

SNOWBALL · #9 10-27-2007, 09:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even if he's got KK he's protecting our equity by folding out middle pair hands that would be correct to call 1 bet.

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I don't think you gain much of anything if KK knockes out middle pair. Almost all the equity goes to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah it only helps us when we improve to 2 pair AND one of the villain's would have improved to trips.

drbk2 · #10 10-28-2007, 11:36 AM

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dr -- if it was heads up, I agree with you. But there are 2 other people in the pot besides the PF 3-bettor, so we want them to donate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we want them to donate. In this situation though I would want them to donate when they are the most incorrect to do so. This would be best achieved by betting the flop. Another thing that may happen (although I admit it wouldn't happen very often) is that the flop gets checked through, which would really suck.