|
|
|
|
#1
10-10-2007, 11:37 AM
|
|||
|
|||
The Myth of Meaning
Of all the parts of theistic claims that baffle me, the concept that believing I am the love toy of a powerful being and somehow that adds "meaning" to my life is one of the tougher. Since we don't have evidence of that being the case, that seems the correct way to state it, but I'd go even farther.
If there were 100% proof that baptists, say, are correct, I cannot see how knowing I am the love toy of an powerful being adds meaning. If being loved adds meaning, then I'm wallowing in it already. Does being loved by a president add 'more' meaning. By Alexander the Great? By Allah or Jehovah? Surely it is the 'being' loved that is what they are talking about, not just the timeline ( or we are just talking about a fear of death). Theists seem to agree with that, "what matters is that god loves you". Theist or atheist thoughts on this claim would be helpful. I'm not trying to convert, just to get a better view. luckyme 
|
|
#2
10-10-2007, 11:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Myth of Meaning
Yeah... I don't really get it either. My take is that followers can feel better about the hardships of this life if they know that, by being a good follower, they will have a have a longer and nicer afterlife. The 'meaning' of this life is fullfilling the requirements to get into 1st class afterlife.
I think its just a human intellectual desire to try to ascribe meaning to things. That, of course, doesn't mean things actually have to have a deep meaning. But by creating a meaning, no matter how arbitrary, it makes some feel better. Christianity seems quite simple-- it appeals to the selfish side of everyone. Describe life as an insignicant period in a longer 'spiritual' life. Define a set of rules that, if followed, means your infinite life will be spent in the clouds strumming harps and being super happy (to what purpose and for what meaning, I doubt anyone concerns themselves with that much)... break the rules and you're tormented for eternity. Its a great method of social control as well as it gives people structure. I suspect we can all agree that structure and goals make our lives better. Religion fills in those blanks. It fills in the void for those looking for meaning. The next question might be... what is the meaning of the afterlife?
|
|
#3
10-10-2007, 12:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Myth of Meaning
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah... I don't really get it either. [/ QUOTE ] That's encouraging. I'm used to the theist claim, THAT it adds meaning, and for the sake of this thread I'm taking that as a premise. So it's the "how does it" that I'd like to hear about. Since none of the theists are dashing in saying, "well jeez luckyme, it's a simple concept .. yadda, yadda." gives me hope that it isn't a simple concept and there still are only 20M or so earthlings smarter than I am. You mention the afterlife issue and at this stage that's the aspect that I tie it to ( fear of death), which at least gives a underlying psychological reason for their general beliefs. But one can be theist ( not american likely) and not believe in an afterlife, at least there seems no conflict. luckyme
|
|
#4
10-10-2007, 03:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Myth of Meaning
"Its a great method of social control as well as it gives people structure. I suspect we can all agree that structure and goals make our lives better. Religion fills in those blanks. It fills in the void for those looking for meaning."
Can't help but think Lenin, Stalin and Hitler would be the first to agree with you here...If you stamp out Churches you can create a vacuum of power and just about anything could fill it...This is sort of similar to a coup d'etat...
|
|
#5
10-10-2007, 03:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Myth of Meaning
It's more like if you stamp out rational thought so people can't understand the world or even how to try to understand the world, you create a power vacuum for anybody with an explanation people will accept, and supernatural nonsense spun the right way filled it.
|
|
#6
10-10-2007, 03:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Myth of Meaning
Churches, bibles, crosses - I'm fairly certain most of them fall under the false idols category anyway.
Seriously, does it take an atheist to see that most christians worship these _things_ more than they worship god these days? The bible is seen as near infallible, when its meaning can mean different things in different translations. The cross is used as a symbol that people rever and worship and the rituals taking place in churches take presedence over many people's worship of their god. I'm no theist, but atleast in the bible stories Jesus and his followers travelled the lands, discussed with scholars, debated customs and practices in accordance with their belief and helped people they met. They didn't sit around with a book and quote it religiously every time they encountered some resistance - and religion wasn't something they just happened to do every sunday either.
|
|
#7
10-10-2007, 03:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Myth of Meaning
I don't see this tame_deuces...Christianity is a lot less ritualistic than other religions...Christians are required to worship once a week...I've never met anyone that worshipped the object of the cross...they use the word "cross" to symbolically represent what Christ did for us...Jesus was the Living Word hence he never had to quote a bible verse, but that doesn't mean his followers don't need to be intimately concerned with the words of the bible...and since a lot of people are trying to live in truth and spirit how would you know if they are doing that since you can't be around them 24/7...The Apostles went into communities throughout the ancient world to spread the Gospel it doesn't mean everyone who accepted Christianity was moved by the Spirit to hit the road like Jesus, in fact, quite a few of the early Christians were persecuted with the Roman Christians staying down in the Catacombs for quite some time...but this may have varied from region to region for different communities of Christians...
|
|
#9
10-10-2007, 04:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Myth of Meaning
[ QUOTE ]
Christianity is a lot less ritualistic than other religions...Christians are required to worship once a week... [/ QUOTE ] That's modern Christianity. It was too long ago when you were expected to worship many hours a week. Modern christians are much more lax then they used to be. [ QUOTE ] I've never met anyone that worshipped the object of the cross...they use the word "cross" to symbolically represent what Christ did for us... [/ QUOTE ] Apparently you've never seen the hilarious footage of good Christians bawling on the steps of courthouses because they can't display their symbols of the 10 Commandments or similar religious symbols. I distinctly remember them crying and saying they were being "denied their God." Hunt that footage down and you'll not only have a good laugh, but you'll see Christians who worship symbols.
|
|
#10
10-10-2007, 08:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Myth of Meaning
Splendour, maybe not all christians I have met worship the cross but I'd say around most of them (counting only those who pay more than lip service and are religious more than one day a week) worship the bible, I I mean they _worship_ it. For many I think the bible means more to them than god does, and others seem to worship their churches. Look at the TV evangelists, it would seem many people are more into following them than they are about following god.
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
