"Jesus" advises Yang to stiff dealers?

[Botchman]

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This is a job a computer does even better than you do, yet you get paid to do it on a regular basis.

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Umm this is not a very good point as computers can do 90% of jobs better than humans

[PoineDexter]

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This may sound odd but didn't every player that entered effectively tip 1.8% ($180.00) before the event got underway win or lose? The prize won by Yang represented the monies left after the operating costs had been removed. Yang effectively contributed $180.00 just like everyone else.

Depends on how you look at it I guess.

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You could look at it that way. Or you could look at it as money out of the prize pool, so that effectively only people that cashed paid a tip.

In other words, if you bust out twenty minutes into the main event, it doesn't matter whether they witheld 2% or 20%, you still end up with nothing. It would make no difference to you. To the winner however, it would make a great deal of difference in how much he's paid.

So, in my mind the tip is only actually paid by the players that cash (and perhaps the bubbles, as well, if the payout would have been deeper with no witholding for the tip).

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I know what you and the others are saying but as you say it depends on how you look at it! I thought it funny to put forth another perspective. If you took my 10K and peeled of $180 for tournament fees that's not going near Yang to distribute as he feels fit but in the Harrah coffers. That's MY money and it's going to the dealers etc. That is to say that even the 5700 "losers" were still decent enough to tip! LOL
Yang could have made an O&A gesture and made everyone feel good about it.

[DesertCat]

Someone PMd me this message. Not sure why it wasn't posted on this thread.

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The only thing you are leaving out is breaks and getting sent home early, and not working 8 hours. Most dealers work about 2 of 3 hours during the main event, and only for 5-6 days. Many dealers have travelled across the country, and the ME is their bread and butter pay day. So if you figure they only get to work about 25 hours during the ME and get 60 an hour it isn't really all that great.

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That makes better sense to me. $60 per hour makes it sound a lot richer than moving to Vegas to work for a week for $1500. Of course they just didn't deal the main event, but if you think the average dealer made $6k for the month, that's not a ton of money considering travel/lodging, and dealing with getting a month off at your current job.

[UATrewqaz]

I understand being a dealer is a thankless job and that players often mistreat them (those players are idiots) however if dealers are underpaid or have bad working conditions that is the fault of their employer.

The casino = the employer
The player = the customer

If your dealer is fast, friendly, and runs a good game and you want to tip you are more than welcome to. I have always tipped when playing live poker (only cash games) and when the dealer is good they get a toke every pot, when they are not so good it might be every other pot. If they do something that royally ticks me off I simply don't toke period.

Dealers (and other casino employees) need to demand better treatment from the casinos. A dealer in Vegas once told me you'd get fired if they even heard you say the "U" word (that would be union).

[pkrporcupine]

Do you all feel better now? Yet again for the atleast the 14th time im sure, I have not "bashed" Chris one bit. Phill....hell ya I did, he is a jerk and he showed his true colors on TV yet again for all to see. The only bashing that has happened in this thread is on the dealers by sad and pathetic posters.
There is a saying I heard recently, fighting online is like running a race in the special olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded. go ahead and bash me for picking on the handicapped too......you win

[NickyC]

I simply cannot understand why so many people are bashing pkrporcupine. When I first read her post, I thought it was incredibly well written and she did everything she could to make Yang look like a great guy. She also didn't bash Ferguson at all, just said he was misinformed. She then went on to say how much she enjoys her job, didn't expect anything from Yang, and was only disappointed that Ferguson didn't have his facts straight. THAT'S ALL SHE WAS DISAPPOINTED ABOUT.
Why is everyone giving her such a rough time? She was as gracious and as honest as she could have been, even though she lost a lot of money by not getting a substantial tip from Yang. It doesn't matter to me one bit if he tipped or not, I'm not one of those people at a poker table that says to someone after winning a pot "don't forget your dealer now". If you want to tip, you tip. If you don't want to tip, the dealers are already taken care of anyway.

Why the bashing on pkrporcupine? Except for that one totally needless comment about waving at some guy while he's doing construction (which was surely written out of frustration), I don't get the hate.

[Dranoel]

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I simply cannot understand why so many people are bashing pkrporcupine. When I first read her post, I thought it was incredibly well written and she did everything she could to make Yang look like a great guy. She also didn't bash Ferguson at all, just said he was misinformed. She then went on to say how much she enjoys her job, didn't expect anything from Yang, and was only disappointed that Ferguson didn't have his facts straight. THAT'S ALL SHE WAS DISAPPOINTED ABOUT.
Why is everyone giving her such a rough time? She was as gracious and as honest as she could have been, even though she lost a lot of money by not getting a substantial tip from Yang. It doesn't matter to me one bit if he tipped or not, I'm not one of those people at a poker table that says to someone after winning a pot "don't forget your dealer now". If you want to tip, you tip. If you don't want to tip, the dealers are already taken care of anyway.

Why the bashing on pkrporcupine? Except for that one totally needless comment about waving at some guy while he's doing construction (which was surely written out of frustration), I don't get the hate.

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I agree. She came on this forum, for the first time, to state what actually happened. So what do some do? They go after her like a pinata.

Wow. It must make others feel good to bash others. Pretty sad if you get joy out of it.

/pkrporcupine: Check your private message on this site.

[Piemaster]

pkrporcupine, I am a bit confused with what point you are trying to make.

If 1.8% of the prize pool goes directly to the service staff, then would you agree that every player had already given a reasonable tip before the tournament even started? And would you agree that CF is right to point this out to an inexperienced player who is relying on him for advice? I know he got the details slightly wrong in regards to the distribution of the money, but you seem to be arguing semantics.

Would you further agree that the players shouldn't really be expected to tip given that a 'tip' has already been deducted? If you think that a tip should be a discretionary and personal thing, do you think it would be better if nothing was deducted from the prize pool for dealers?

All in all you seem to be annoyed, but I'm not quite sure who with.

[doublejoker]

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more players than just the winner should be tipping and adding to this total right?

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All players paid 1.8% out of their entry fee to pay the dealers with. Not sure how many who made the money tipped on top of that. But I'll bet that the TD and other staff pressured every single one of them So yes, the real number should be closer to $1M I'd guess (depending on how much mgmt raked for their own pockets).

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The winners are NEVER pressured to tip. It is a printed "Gratuity" line on the form and they are asked if they would like to leave anything ADDITIONAL. And yet again the dealers only get 70% of that 1.8. Also I may not be BFF with JE but the Floor staff makes enough without having to take from us and they dont "line" their pockets with players money

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I agree with Lori; the money never seems to trickle down to the dealers......

[Tater10]

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The fact is, 1.8% gets withheld from the prize pool for tips. Now, you're right, part of that goes to the dealers and part of that goes to the staff. What you're missing is that, from the perspective of us players, that's not a particularly meaningful distinction. (I understand why it's meaningful to you, naturally.) To most of us, a tip is a tip.

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this makes a lot of sense to me. If I'm paying a $200 bill at a restaurant, and about to leave $240 and someone says " 18% is already on it, don't tip extra", I thank the person, and leave exactly $200. I don't care that X% of the tips go to the bus boy, Y% to the bartender, etc etc.