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  #11  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:32 AM
Bond18 Bond18 is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

I actually think 1/2 are much worse than 3, but that's mostly because i'm way more averse to open limping than limping behind.

I think stuff like this might be more appropriate in a tournament that's not the 100r where people will brutalize you. I like that you tried it out though.
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  #12  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:12 AM
apestyles apestyles is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

It seems like your M/BBs would be really important when it comes to open limping. I saw a player who I was told was durr limping alot deep in the 1k with 40ish bbs, I assumed this was because he thought he had a post flop advantage. I open limp very infrequently so I'm not sure what spots would be good or bad. I occasionally open limp the button when I'm sure the sb and bb are reshoving a wide range (I also mix in stronger hands/big pairs so that its not exploitable). I really dont open limp much in ep except when I'm deepstacked a passive table or I misclick. I think I'll continue with this until someone can show me why its not optimal.
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  #13  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:30 AM
TravestyFund TravestyFund is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

I think hand 2,3 are OK, I hate hand 1 tho. Youre def too short imo, if u have somewhere between 16-35BBs I would think its OK too.


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  #14  
Old 11-28-2007, 11:32 AM
IcarusJam IcarusJam is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

Did you open limp any other hands vs busto_soon in that tournament besides the JKd? Is there any value in creating this image to resteal?
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  #15  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:13 PM
DDBeast DDBeast is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

I think hand 2 is miserable. He's not folding and surely KQ is way behind his range for raising 2 limpers.
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  #16  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:22 PM
timex timex is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

The KJdd hand was before busto was moved to the table.

How do people play each of these hands?

I was more or less just looking for chances to limp, to ask peoples opinions.

I think in hand 1 if I'm like 8-900 chips deeper its fine, I probably tend to fold generally.

Hand 2, for people saying its a bad limp, do you open here or do you fold? With a 19BB stack, some people I know have begun folding that if there are more stacks in the 10-25BB range behind, and some people I know just fold it as their default play. For those of you who do open, do you think limping is better than folding?

I really think that limping here with some agressive players behind is fine since in a tourney like the 109r, so many people isolate overly wide, and expect you to only limp shove absolute monsters, whereas other players isolate tight enough that you save yourself a few bets if they get their AA/AK etc.


The 3rd one I just put in the thread because it involved limping, do you prefer isolating or folding?


[ QUOTE ]
I think stuff like this might be more appropriate in a tournament that's not the 100r where people will brutalize you. I like that you tried it out though.


[/ QUOTE ]

I really think I disagree with the 100r is a tourney where everyone plays overly aggressive, and likes putting all the money in first, so with hands that don't fare well against reasonable shoving ranges, limp shoving against people who fold a lot of their raising range seems reasonable unless I'm misunderstanding.

Also, for the KJdd hand, what % of the time would you estimate it folds to the blinds? If you know that HJ through button are folding, how much extra more value(if any) do you think raising to like 900 gains as opposed to limping?
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:54 PM
Bonified Bonified is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

In particularly aggressive tournaments like the 50/100r, I quite like limping in LP with 15-20 BBs, and KQ (suited or not) is one of the best hands to do it with because your hand is well defined on the flop ; it's not strong enough to raise with the intention of calling a re-shove (IMO) ; but it feels too strong to fold and you can re-jam a lot of blind raisers. I think limp > 3BB raise or fold here. The real question would be is it > jam.

Less sure about this in EP, but these things are always worth trying out.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:01 PM
Beachman42 Beachman42 is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

I get kinda interested when respected players say they *never* do something. That statement in itself makes you exploitable.

The issue I see with these three examples isn't the limp, its the lack of reasoning as to why Hero limped in each case.

In the first example, I believe limping is a poor choice due to # of BBs Hero has, position in the hand, and stack size of those who follow. Also, you didn't seem to have a plan (folding is a default condition here, not a plan)for what to do next. Hero didn't say if V1 or V2 raises, I fold. If BB raises, I call with position or re-raise, etc.

While most of the time limping isn't the optimal line, there are definitely situations where limping behind is as simple as a current odds calculation. Open limping is a seldom used tool in my playbook, but it has worked in the past when the stars were in alignment.

Just my $0.02
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:03 PM
timex timex is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

I think one of the problems with KQ is that on so many of the flops that it hits, you can take down the pot with 32, but I do agree with you since to many people 3bet A2 but not KJ.

I have trouble imagining a case where shove >limp >raise-evaluate, but I could be wrong.
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:27 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: I\'m becoming a live player

wtf is everyone saying hand 2 is good for? Am I in twilight zone, we limp in EP for 1/20th of our stack with KQ and then limp reraise when the opponent is nearly pot committed? (getting about 2-1)
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