KTs Bet sizing

[AstroDog]

Results: 1,960 Pot
Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON 1,960 (+980 NET)
BB mucked Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Queens and Tens) and LOST (-980 NET)

BB proceeded to call me a horrible player and an idiot (icing on the cake to me).

Improved betting for me but felt like it was still weak. Awesome advice. Thanks!

[sapsuckah]

Not that it matters, but why was BB calling you an idiot? I agree that you could/should have gotten more value here, but there was certainly nothing majorly wrong with how you played it (except the preflop minraise).

[AstroDog]

I couldn't figure out why he thought it actually. I don't take that kind of bait. Just told him thanks. Previous hand I was in CO and dealt AA. One limper from MP, I went 4bb. Villain above called from the button, BB called. MP went all in (he was stack leader), I shoved and the other two folded. Hit a set on the river but had him beat even without it. Dug a bit and haven't found any play I"d call stupid.

[rjsob]

[ QUOTE ]
Results: 1,960 Pot
Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON 1,960 (+980 NET)
BB mucked Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Queens and Tens) and LOST (-980 NET)


[/ QUOTE ]

Nit picking, but if he mucked, how do you know his hand? Or am I just missing the sarcasm?

[AstroDog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Results: 1,960 Pot
Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON 1,960 (+980 NET)
BB mucked Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Queens and Tens) and LOST (-980 NET)


[/ QUOTE ]

Nit picking, but if he mucked, how do you know his hand? Or am I just missing the sarcasm?

[/ QUOTE ]

I noticed that too. FullTilt reports it that way. Raw logs:

Seat 5: themtking98 (big blind) mucked [Qc Td] - two pair, Queens and Tens

He did show. Not sure why the logs say mucked.

[Donkey5layer]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not bet more on each street? It doesn't seem like you maximized your profits in this hand. If you raise pre-flop to 180 and make 2/3 pot-sized bets on flop and turn, the pot will contain 1000 more on the river. Now, you can size your river bet to whatever you feel is most likely to take him to valuetown.

I would normally attempt a turn check-raise here and try to get the most of him, but since you labelled him tight-passive I think leading out every street is best. IMO they rarely make crazy moves but they don't mind calling slightly higher bets on each street.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree 3x pre but why bet big here.. what about playing a small pot with a small hand and a big pot with a big hand... he doesnt have a big hand until the river, nice draw on turn but not a big hand yet

[1outer]

[ QUOTE ]
Make it 180 pf (360)

Then you can bet 240 on flop. (480+360= 840 total)

Then ~600 on turn (~2kish total turn)

Then you can shove river with it not making it look like an overbet, and you get max value.

[/ QUOTE ]

i definitely need to work on thinking a hand thru like this. I think these analytical skills help A LOT in cash games as well. There are lots of hands where you really are just trying to get all the money in the middle and by knowing what to bet each street as to price them in or make a large river bet look unsuspicious.

I tend to try and lock down what the holdings of my opponent and what they would do with those holdings and how they would react to what I am going to do. So basically, i play street by street very carefully. It seems like I am not focusing enough on pot manipulation.

How important is pot manipulation and how can i improve on making my lines look like above, that make sense, and have a good shot of getting max value.

My style of play includes a decent amount of re-raising with minimal showdowns, so I rarely ever get to play all 3 streets. Any advice would be awesome guys, thanks.

[1outer]

also, i can't believe the BB called u a donk! If you are a donk then can anyone explain to me how he could have played this hand worse. I think the only thing he did right was PF call. No raise on flop or turn from BB? Also, if he is not raising river than he is clearly making a crying call. Hopefully i get to play him!

[AstroDog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Results: 1,960 Pot
Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON 1,960 (+980 NET)
BB mucked Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Queens and Tens) and LOST (-980 NET)


[/ QUOTE ]

Nit picking, but if he mucked, how do you know his hand? Or am I just missing the sarcasm?

[/ QUOTE ]

Turns out that FullTilt (and maybe Poker Stars) logs every hand on show downs even if in game the player mucked. PAHud uses this to display even mucked hands.

[DontRaiseMeBro]

reread bond's article... i believe u may have missed the point.. no insult to u of course but with this hand u def need to find a way to get it all in on the river.