S8/b - Paternal Twins

[*TT*]

Another two. Both are closely related in concept.

Seat 4 is weak tight. Seat 5 plays a lot of hands and peels liberally based on his board.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.17 SB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (5.17 SB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (4.08 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks

6th Street - (4.08 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___??????????????
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

Seat 7 is tight and tricky. He peels on big pots on 4th street, he plays better than the other oponents at this table and is running hotter than hell by scooping a lot of pots. He also tends to take the very agressive bet-bet-bet line in HU pots and somehow always gets there on the river by improving to 2 pair out of thin air on a deceiving board.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.17 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (2.50 SB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.25 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.25 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___????????
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

[Alchemist]

Aren't UI big pairs fun? Hand 1 I guess I fold. Seat 5 brought in but he decided to play with two big doors cards and a 7 involved, so a low draw is likely. His checking 5th showing 532 is a bit peculiar, which means he's probably paired up. Now he bets once he catches another deuce. So I can't see it being profitable to call here where you ultimately have to improve to Kings up or better, which may not be good enough if he's got a Deuce underneath which is quite reasonable. The pot is small and you may only get half even when you are good for high.

Hand 2 is quite a fine mess. Myself I would fold 3rd and check 5th. As played I think 6th is a fold but I really have no clue and is exactly why I avoid these spots in the first place.

[2461Badugi]

Even when you wait for a good spot to play split kings, they still suck.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 is quite a fine mess. Myself I would fold 3rd

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be a mistake. In the FT 3/6 game the pot is too large to fold in this situation, your getting 6.5:1 to call - fantastic odds. But the downside is you will have to release on 4th quite often. In the Stars 3/6 game your only getting 4.75:1, which makes it a clear fold.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Even when you wait for a good spot to play split kings, they still suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything about my S8b game sucks when I play online - not just split Kings! I seem to do much better live, I think its because of the opponents and the table texture, not the game itself.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 is quite a fine mess. Myself I would fold 3rd

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be a mistake. In the FT 3/6 game the pot is too large to fold in this situation, you're getting 6.5:1 to call - fantastic odds. But the downside is you will have to release on 4th quite often. In the Stars 3/6 game you're only getting 4.75:1, which makes it a clear fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably right; I'm not used to the 2:1 bring-in:ante ratio.

[2461Badugi]

I'm becoming a passive nut in this post, so it's probably best if nobody takes me too seriously.

I think there's an interesting argument to be made for limping and keeping the pot small in Hand 1, given what we know of Seats 4 and 5. That is to say that both of them will play exactly as many pots for a raise as they would for a limp, so we have no isolation value.

Once Seat 5 catches a good card you're in trouble because you're never going to have any idea what he has, and that will lead to big bet mistakes. He's not going to fold fourth with that card, so there's not a lot of point in betting. I wonder if checking it through might not be better, primarily because it allows you a good chance to retain position and make a better decision in a small pot on fifth.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm becoming a passive nut in this post, so it's probably best if nobody takes me too seriously.

I think there's an interesting argument to be made for limping and keeping the pot small in Hand 1, given what we know of Seats 4 and 5. That is to say that both of them will play exactly as many pots for a raise as they would for a limp, so we have no isolation value.

Once Seat 5 catches a good card you're in trouble because you're never going to have any idea what he has, and that will lead to big bet mistakes. He's not going to fold fourth with that card, so there's not a lot of point in betting. I wonder if checking it through might not be better, primarily because it allows you a good chance to retain position and make a better decision in a small pot on fifth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good alternative strategy, except we have no way of expecting seat 4 to call if we complete. Seat 5 will likely play on of course. I think the percentage play therefore is to complete on 3rd, unless your positive seat 4 will call the completion.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]

Good alternative strategy, except we have no way of expecting seat 4 to call if we complete. Seat 5 will likely play on of course. I think the percentage play therefore is to complete on 3rd, unless your positive seat 4 will call the completion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my theory is that S4, being weak-tight, will call a K's completion with exactly the same range of (xx)7 hands he would overlimp with. I would expect him to fold most of the time in any case, but I don't think he folds any more often to a completion than he would otherwise.

[Andy B]

First hand--given your characterization of opponent, and the fact that he checked fifth street with a strong board, I think you have a call on sixth. Hopefully, you'll buy help on the river. Failing that, hopefully the other guy will give you a free showdown.

Second hand--even with the high ante, given that a couple of low cards are already in and a couple more are yet to act, folding third wouldn't be terrible. I don't see much value in betting fifth. The other guy is not folding. He may well be free-rolling. I'm having trouble coming up with a hand for opponent where you're favored. I'd check and call.

Since the other guy didn't raise fifth, we can reasonably assume that he doesn't have a made low. He's probably paired up. If you give him two pair and four to a raggedy low, he's about a 4:1 money favorite, and you're only getting 3:1 to call down. If he has a made low with his pair, you're more like a 2:1 money dog. He shouldn't have a low, though, right? Maybe he's got a bad one underneath or something, in which case you're in decent shape. Not sure how all that balances out, but I can see calling down and I can see folding. I probably call down because that's what I do best. Against a good player, I'd fold.