Butchered this one 1/2

[NMcNasty]

UTG is St1ckman, button is Doughnutz. Both opponents are very good but IMO a little stationy, so I'm not too certain if a flop raise really accomplishes much. Turn is good but I didn't want to risk it getting checked through. I know my line is weak/tight but I'm not sure if checkraising turn or flop is better, or if I should bet/3 bet turn. Also, preflop? River?

PokerStars 100/200 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

[The Funky Llama]

Flop: I think calling is ok but I think I like a checkraise. When doughnutz calls preflop and then the flop you know he has nothing pretty often, something like 9Ts or QJs. So the question is whether a checkraise will allow you to knock UTG off overcards. Since you have decent equity here (even though doughnutz might fold if UTG 3bets the flop) I think the c/r will gain you enough FE to make it +EV. Most tags are raising hands like JTs, QT, etc. utg 5 handed so theres a decent amount of stuff that will fold on the turn, especially if doughnutz is still in there behind him. I'm assuming if he has a big ace he's gonna call you down a lot but thats fine.

Turn: Betting out seems worse than both checkraising and check/calling. The reason is that UTG should know that doughnutz has air and that you usually also have overcards. Therefore, he should be firing his whole range so there is no need to donk. He also shouldn't be raising you with a worse hand like AK because he should know that he is beat very often. 3betting the turn after you are raised would be absolute suicide.

River: I'd pay off here getting 9.75:1. You're not good very often, but 9.75:1 are damn good odds.

[PartyGirlUK]

I would fold this preflop and cr the flop. PF is slightly bad imo but whatever, the flop is a must cr.

Why?

i) Equity. Given that Dough has 2 overcards almost every single time, and St1ck has 2 overcards a lot of the time (and 22,44 some of the time), you have a bunch of equity. 9 almost sure outs, + 6 possible outs in 3 way action = yum yum money in pot pls ty.

ii) You need to cr for metagame. If you aren't cring this hand here they are really gonna be able to narrow your range down in similar situations.

iii) Thin the field. If you just call, the turn will be 3 ways. And there is a pretty good chance the river will be 3 ways too. It will get checked thru a lot, and if someone bets it will be at least heads up to the river. If you cr, good things can happen such as -

-- UTG folds JT right away wary of getting trapped on flop, giving you 2 more outs.

-- UTG calls say AJ and BN folds QT

-- UTG calls AJ and BN calls QT. You fire the turn, and with BN still to act UTG pitches his Ace hi, and BN folds his Q hi (this is especially likely on turns such a King, 4 or 7. Even on a 5 you want them to fold I think)

etc.

iv) Information. You cr the flop and bet the blank turn. You get 1 or 2 callers. You can be pretty sure that a bluff is nor profitable on the river. You also know that a 5 or T is a valuebet, especially heads up. If you just check call streets, and the river is a 5 or T, you have no idea what to do. Note that by cring you narrow down their ranges and widen yours, which is an excellent result.

As it is, I like your turn bet, and the river is a definite fold, even against St1ck.

[The Funky Llama]

Dean,

You make some good points but I don't think many people fold overcards for one bet on the flop.

Also, you talk about checkraising the flop for metagame (implying that c/r a narrow range here is exploitable). Isn't it much more exploitable to be folding rivers like this?

[PartyGirlUK]

No -- you only beat a pure bluff on the river 7 (or the unlike KQcc types). And you are only folding because of the 7. So it's gonna cost him 3bbs to bluff into a 5.75bb pot with someone behind and you calling a bunch of the time. Not exploitable imo.

[The Funky Llama]

well its pretty obvious doughnutz has air so that seems like a great price depending on what percentage of your donking range is one pair hands.

[The Funky Llama]

I'm not trying to say that a fold isn't correct, just that folding in spots like this seems much more exploitable than only checkraising good hands on this flop.

I mean the guy is gonna see you fold the river and remember it for sure. It would take a long time before someone realizes that you only checkraise that flop with good hands. Furthermore, if they do start exploiting you and start folding to your flop checkraises (or turn followup), you can just start raising total air there.

EDIT: oh, if you're saying that hero should only fold on a 7 or 4 then yea, thats probably not exploitable. Didn't realize that is what you were saying.

[Peter_rus]

I like this line. Especially river fold. If next round i'll have similar hand and action i like c-calling turn and river.

C-raising flop is also the option, though if you showed trips to them at least once after such action. If you didn't or your play is unknown to your opponents - someone will check you to SD until third club's coming, which isn't good cause it reduce your impyed odds and do not let your opponents to make mistakes.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
I like this line. Especially river fold. If next round i'll have similar hand and action i like c-calling turn and river.

C-raising flop is also the option, though if you showed trips to them at least once after such action. If you didn't or your play is unknown to your opponents - someone will check you to SD until third club's coming, which isn't good cause it reduce your impyed odds and do not let your opponents to make mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter I love your posts. Post more, plz [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]