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  #11  
Old 11-30-2007, 09:39 AM
TruFloridaGator TruFloridaGator is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

That said, if the blinds are going up, I would push. That is an additional factor to consider but you shouldn't be in the habit of guessing for the OP if they are.
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2007, 09:53 AM
kamel kamel is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

[ QUOTE ]

Moreover, it's been discussed ad nauseam that we want about a .5 edge especially at a 22.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is so sick. You don't get 0.5 edge on average. Villain would need to do a big mistake at bubble and you should be the one who profits of it. Given, how likely it is to be still in SnG when 4-5 players are in, how likely it is that Villain is making a very huge mistake, how likely it is that we profit of it and how likeyly it is that we will make money of that, multiple all this factors give's us a small edge, probably up to 0.3, but never enough to wait for a good enough hand (that compensates for all unlikeleness of abough) to 0.5.

And in addition we have here, for a 22 relativly deep, still 7 opponents, probably, the 4-5 guys that survive to bubble are tough. So, here given up more than 0.15 is so sick, I even would gamble here with any 0.xx advantage.

But be lucky with your decision, I enjoy that.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:05 AM
TruFloridaGator TruFloridaGator is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

Why is giving up .15 so sick? Taking that small of an edge just increases our variance when we can easily get large enough edges. .5 isn't a rule or anything, you can take any edge you want. It's a good place to go for though for someone who isn't sure of a play like this.

Be lucky with my decision? We're just talking, leave the smart ass remarks, thanks.
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:11 AM
kamel kamel is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

[ QUOTE ]
Why is giving up .15 so sick?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because in average, you don't get without massive reads a much higher edge IMHO. And in addition, playing fast here decreases average SnG-Time, so we can get in average in more +EV spots sooner, that makes it even more +EV.

[ QUOTE ]
Taking that small of an edge just increases our variance when we can easily get large enough edges. .5 isn't a rule or anything, you can take any edge you want. It's a good place to go for though for someone who isn't sure of a play like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you calculated how BAD the villains need to be to cover an 0.5 edge?? I did, and if at least one reg is at the table, it's not worth to think about.
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:16 AM
TruFloridaGator TruFloridaGator is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

So basically OP shouldn't have to think twice about shoving this if he calcs it in ICM because he can take any edge.
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:21 AM
kamel kamel is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

[ QUOTE ]
So basically OP shouldn't have to think twice about shoving this if he calcs it in ICM because he can take any edge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, unless his villains are really very bad.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:31 AM
TruFloridaGator TruFloridaGator is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

Right, which is possible in a 22. Maybe we shouldn't pass up a .3+ edge though. I'm not at home so I don't know exactly how thin this hand is.
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:05 PM
CheeseMoney CheeseMoney is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

I'm looking for a .3+ fwiw, but without a calculator I don't think we're quite getting that here. I'm thinking 88+, and I also probably shove AJo+, ATs+. Probably it should really be 88+, AJs+, Aqo+. I dunno, I suck today.
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2007, 06:09 PM
HajiShirazu HajiShirazu is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

I always thought most of our future edge came in pushing spots where it was close that our opponents would miss. Also increasing your stack increases your future edge, because you'll have more +EV spots with the bigger stack. Block theory lol. So I think you should take shoves whenever they are close to 0 unless you play with the same opponents often and are worried about metagame.
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2007, 06:26 PM
jfly jfly is offline
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Default Re: $22, 77 UTG in tough spot

FWIW, the remaining players seemed solid but I would say the majority won't be doing late position steals liberally. The play seemed more passive than it should be.

This is a regular speed SnG. We've played 6 hands at this blind level, so theres still about 7 minutes before it reaches 100/200.
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