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  #31  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:58 PM
dankhank dankhank is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

i don't understand why 3-betting to 9k and then folding to a push is so bad. the only hand toto pushes that we aren't behind, is AK, plus the rare occasion when he makes a move with 98s or AJ or something. also if you can't get any read on toto when he pushes as to whether he has AA-KK or AK or 98s, then good for toto, and bad for you.

i read somewhere on this forum just the other day how someone "ran the numbers" and said it was barely okay to 3-bet AQ for 1/3rd your stack and fold to re-raise.

pushing allin-in with TT here, you trap yourself if someone has a monster. i like to think i play good enough where i'm trying to avoid traps when i have a viable stack.
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  #32  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:43 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

Why is everyone guessing. We don't even know the exact prize structure? Almost every single response didn't do any math at all when in reality this is almost purely a math problem. It's 100% certainty that pushing allin is +CeV (I've already done the math on this, it isn't even close against his likely opening range), we just have to determine whether it's more +EV than calling or do some kind of ICM calculations to determine whether pushing is correct against UTG's raising range.

Anyway I don't know the exact prize structure so I didn't even bother trying. The more top heavy it is, the better pushing will be. The flatter it is, the worse pushing will be.
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  #33  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:14 PM
KingDan KingDan is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

[ QUOTE ]
The more top heavy it is, the better pushing will be. The flatter it is, the worse pushing will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if its top-heavy I like calling more then shoving.
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  #34  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:58 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The more top heavy it is, the better pushing will be. The flatter it is, the worse pushing will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if its top-heavy I like calling more then shoving.

[/ QUOTE ]

All Im saying is that risking your tournament life is worse when it's important not to bubble. Shoving risks it, calling doesn't.

To clarify, our chances of getting eliminated from the tournament on this specific hand, are almost always greater if we move allin as opposed to call. If it's important to hang around to get 5th place due to prize structure considerations, then this is something that should be taken into account. If it's less important to finish 5th place because all of the money is at the top, then this is less important to consider.
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  #35  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:10 PM
NHFunkii NHFunkii is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

awrin
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  #36  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:29 PM
FatalError FatalError is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

40%,25%,15%,12%,8%

From memory could be off a few % in 3rd/4th
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  #37  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:56 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

So it does seem important to make the money, as there is an 8% difference between 6th and 5th. Meanwhile there is less than an 8% difference between 3rd and 5th. The difference between 6th and 5th is more than half the difference between 1st+2nd and almost the same as the difference between 2nd+3rd. So basically it seems pretty significant to not come in 6th.
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  #38  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:59 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: NPL 2.5k @ Venetian, TV Table / Money bubble w/ TT

btw this is all very important because if the prize structure were 40-25-15-10-5 then everything is much different, as the difference between 6th+5th is same as 4th+5th etc etc, so coming in 5th is a much smaller concern. The may be close enough so that whether 5th place is 10%, 8% or 5% of the prize pool will make some kind of strategical difference.
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