We win (AP Scandal v. 27)

[playallday]

I do not understand the people (in this thread and the previous one that keep trying to marginalize this scandal.

Are they stockholders in AP?

One poster was aggressively mocking someone for suggesting this probably wasn't the first time this happened.

Does anyone really believe this was the first time this happened? Really?

Because everything about this, including the over-the-top arrogance and fearlessness, smells like someone who had done it many, many times without getting caught. You don't cheat like that the first time and act like you're bulletproof.

If I was confident I had access to all the unaltered log files, I'd bet my house this wasn't the first time. Or the second. Etc.

Ask a prosecutor what the odds are that everybody happened to catch the guy(s) the first time. Not real likely.

As mentioned many times by the brains behind this investigation, veering off into wild speculation about other individuals without cause is a terrible thing to do... and a difficult thing to undo.) BUT...

But suggesting that this probably runs deeper and more widely than the tournament in question isn't witchhunting... it's common sense.

Without someone sending out all the unaltered log files (and then... disappearing?) no one here is probably going to be able to figure it out for sure. Hopefully any audit is legit and they have access to unaltered files for all games.

But assuming this has happened before is the safest bet in poker right now.

Criminals almost always start cautious and grow more and more cocky as they continue to not get caught. It's a completely predictable pattern.

This guy didn't think there was any chance at all of getting caught. His cocky was maxed out. That's why it looked, from our POV, like he was an idiot. He may or may be, but what we are seeing is someone who felt really, really safe. Safe enough to act like an idiot.

It's like flipping off the security camera when you're robbing a bank.

Bottom line is that I think the work everyone has done has been outstanding and entertaining... I just wish some people wouldn't keep trying to cap the limit of the scandal... we don't know what the limit is yet, minimizing it before we do is counter-productive.

[Pokeraddict]

Yeah it might be time to lock it up and try again.

[rothko]

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Yeah it might be time to lock it up and try again.

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agreed. start a new one when there's something to talk about.

[R*R]

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In this email why did they refer to steamroller? Wouldn't the normal response have been "stom@fiducix.com belongs to the Absolute Poker Staff". Unless the $300 transfer referred to steamroller. Is this the case? For those who have not seen the original explanation of this email look here for happyhappyhappy post:

]http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...art=22&vc=1

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Because the guy that contacted support was playing at the table with a guy named steamroller... And steamroller asked him to beta test a new client. He was following up with support to find out if steamroller was in fact an AP employee.

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So this seems to be incredibly damning evidence that Scott Tom is steamroller and no one is talking about this much? I guess everyone is focusing on the upcoming Absolute announcement.
I am still a little skeptical about the email as he asked ABS support about an email address not steamroller yet they replied referring to steamroller. Seems a bit odd.
Can the guy that posted original email clarify this?

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I believe he also asked about Steamroller since the guy who was sitting with him at a live table told him that's what his account was. AP verified that in the e-mail when he requested verification presumably to ensure that he wasn't getting scammed.

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According to Zach6668 post of his friend's email his friend did not ask about steamroller, he asked about the email address. So that would mean ABS suppport took the jump from email address(stom@fiducix.com) to player name(steamroller). This still seems odd again given that original email appears not to have asked about steamroller specifically. I mean if this could be explained it could be very good otherwise it has to be viewed with some sketicism.

If we could have original email from friend asking about steamroller than this would be incredible as it would be another confirmation that Scott Tom is steamroller and it would also indicate that even regular support new he was steamroller. To me this could be one of the best pieces of evidence yet.

[Dilznoofus]

Can we revisit the Seif vs stuckinpgh HU match? No speculation here, just some quotes.

stuckinpgh started a thread to clarify his position regarding the match against Seif, in which he said he was not certain whether Seif cheated. He did, however, make clear that the match was described accurately in the original thread on internettexasholdem, including Seif open folding to his flopped full house.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post12133066

stuckinpgh:

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Ok, for the record at this point I am still unsure if I was cheated in the early AM heads up match with Mark well over a year ago. The facts in the article are however true. Mark played with amazing accuracy according to my holdings every single hand after he sat out and came back. The strangest hand that I remember was the following. I had the button with K9h. Preflop he raised, I 3bet with my K9h, and he capped. The flop was K99 and he just open folded. To this day I can't think of a single hand he could have, nor a reason why he would do that.


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He hasn't posted here since Sept. 22. However, Dan Druff apparently knows stuckin personally:

Druff:

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You can't completely dismiss the Seif heads-up match now. The K9 boat open-fold was ONE hand, yes, but it wasn't just that one hand being complained about. That was just the most offensive of the bunch. stuckinpgh actually complained that Seif seemed to know the right moves EVERY HAND.

I know this because I know stuckinpgh personally, and he discussed it all with me right when it happened.

BTW, why has Mark been so quiet about this whole thing? He hasn't made one post or public statement clearing AP or even his own name. I'd love to see him involved here.

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Seif denies the hand ever happened, and challenged anyone to show him the hand history that proves it. This was in the tourney chat window from last night.


MARK SEIF: with respect to that assertion that i open folded - that is
MARK SEIF: a total and complete LIE
MARK SEIF: that never happened and i challenge anyone anyone at all to
MARK SEIF: show me that hand
MARK SEIF: its is bald face LIE


Seif didn't just deny cheating stuckinpgh, he said the hand never happened. Either someone's memory is bad, or one side or the other is lying.

Either way, something is not right here. I just can't seem to let it go. It'd be great if Dan or stuckinpgh could comment on this.

[basementproject]

Story has broken on CardPlayer and pokernews.

pokernews article

CardPlayer article

[admiralfluff]

Seif also denied that the Potripper replay looked like cheating.

Given what we know now, it's extremely likely he cheated in this case. This does not constitue definitive proof. I think discussions here should focus on the evidence, and how to collect it. In this case, it would be getting AP to access the master history for these hands, and looking to see if 363 sits down after Seif takes his break. Simply speculating on the likelihood of him being a cheater won't get us anywhere. We know it's high, but not high enough to say 'he did it'.

[nath]

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Story has broken on CardPlayer and pokernews.

pokernews article

CardPlayer article

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Man, reading those really re-emphasizes to me how important these threads were and how important the work of Nat, Serge, and everyone else was to getting to the bottom of this. You guys have done something extraordinary.

[Kimbell175113]

I feel like an [censored] for my mistake earlier, and I'm going to stop posting in these threads and just read silently. I encourage others to join me in lurk mode, and help to make the next thread as information-dense, linear, and error-free as possible.

[StepBangin]

How did we find out that the employee that sent the email is no longer employed by AP? Why is the person that said this hiding the reason the employee is not employed?

Also, it seems like Andathar and N82 and people like that know a lot more that they are not sharing. What is the point of not sharing this info?

AP has screwed a lot of people out of a lot of money and now you are hiding info about them? For what reason? Whats the point of telling people "I know something you dont know" and then just leaving it at that? How does that benefit you at all?

Too many Questions?