KK line

[jkamowitz]

Really really late 20/40 game. It's one of those quiet games where everyone is tired and playing rather straightforward including myself.

Kim (for the those in the know) raises utg. She recently just raised pf and I 3-bet AQ, she check raised me on a A388 board with 22 and was all in. Since then she has moved to my immediate left.

So, she raises utg and a loose passive and a tricky player (but rather passive preflop) call as does the sb.

I 3-bet KKo in the big. Everyone calls.

Flop AQQr
sb checks, I check , and it's checked around.

Turn 3
sb checks, I check again planning on
folding if kim bets and more than one person call
calling if kim bets and its folded to me
c/raising the tricky kid on the button
folding if kim checks and loose passive bets

meh? Should I bet any of these streets instead?

[Brooklyn Fats]

Sorry, you need this hand to checked on through twice to make sure its safe. Just a lousy flop for you. There is just too great a chance of someone holding an ace or a queen in this scenario.

[n.s.]

I'm not sure it's right, but I'd usually just bet the flop here. We should have a pretty good idea of where we're at once we bet. If we bet and get called in a bunch of places (or raised by anyone but button), we can pretty much give up on the hand right away and it only cost 1 SB. If we get it heads-up, then we can safely revert to a wa/wb line.

The problem with your line is that we'll often be committed to paying 2 more BB to see showdown, when we'll often be behind. We could even end up paying 3 or BB if we end up c/ring the button and he actually has the goods this time (a tricky player might check through the flop with a Q here).

[jkamowitz]

Ok, what if we change the line to be 'call if the button bets the turn planning to call if he bets the river again hu, but fold the river if I call and another person calls inbetween and he bets again.'

Is that better?

[Munchkin Mayor]

I think betting the flop is your best approach. Should be able to get all your information at this time. Only someone with a Queen can call. Someone with an Ace will raise. Doubt that the tricky guy would try to make a play here.

I think you probably take the pot down at this time.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, what if we change the line to be 'call if the button bets the turn planning to call if he bets the river again hu, but fold the river if I call and another person calls inbetween and he bets again.'

Is that better?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I do like that better, although I still prefer just betting the flop. Against 4 other people, there could be enough long-shot draws that you'd like to get to fold if you can. You'd feel awfully dumb if the flop and turn both checked through, no had an A or Q, but you ended up losing to 55 that made a boat on the river.

[jkamowitz]

yeah very true.

Kim ended up betting the turn and I was the only caller.

River was an Ace and she gave up frustrated.

[Crusher19]

i think your line is pretty good here. sometimes i just give up completely on the flop or if it checks through bet the turn and give up if im called. sounds like you have pretty strong reads on the players in your game so you can play accordingly

[ackid]

I think you have to bet the flop here. It will make the hand much easier to play.

[RobA]

i think your line is good. KK is a great starting hand, but this flop is maybe the worst one I could imagine. you can just check/fold this flop and forget about it. there are lots lots better spots to call down.

when the flop is checked through, then your turn plan is fine.