Couple of Spots against Bad Lag/Maniac

Dr_Doctr · #1 11-25-2007, 06:05 PM

Villian is super-aggro and loose. We have been involved in a lot of pots. He's been raising from the SB almost every time it's folded to him. The first and third hands here are for history only. For the first I didn't know he was a maniac. The third is to show how bad he is / how little credit he gives me - he called me with A-high in hand 3. What do you think of the fold in hand 2? In hand 4 what do you think of the general line? If he has a smaller pair I get value and can check behind on the river, or go for a thin value-bet. If he c/r me I can be pretty confident my hand isn't good. Would you play this differently? I can see several ways to play this hand and can't decide which is best. Comments welcome.

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $108
CO: $50
Button: $74.63
Hero: $49.50
BB: $45.15

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Button raises to $2, Hero raises to $7.25, BB folds, Button calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($15, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($35, 2 players)
Hero is all-in $32.5, Button folds.
Uncalled bets: $32.5 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $35

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $42.19
CO: $50.03
Button: $93.36
SB: $52.75
Hero: $114.34

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 folds, SB raises to $2.25, Hero raises to $6.5, SB calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($13, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($13, 2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($29, 2 players)
SB is all-in $38.75, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $38.75 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: $29

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $66.10
Hero: $100.09
Button: $41.44
SB: $50.28
BB: $93.36

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG raises to $2, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($6.25, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($6.25, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($6.25, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $6, Hero raises to $20, BB folds, UTG calls.

Results:
Final pot: $46.25

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $60.83
Hero: $107.72
CO: $51.50
Button: $43.18
SB: $94.91
BB: $34.54

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises to $2, Hero raises to $7, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($14.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($14.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $10, UTG raises to $29, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $19 returned to UTG.

Results:
Final pot: $34.75

Nick C · #2 11-25-2007, 07:57 PM

Interestingly, since you folded hands 2 and 4 and Villain mostly just called in hands 1 and 3, we can't really see how much of a maniac he is.

Hand 2: I know your hand is ahead of Villain's preflop range, but I think just calling preflop is an option. I'm not so sure I want to bloat the pot preflop versus someone who's often going to try to take it away from me (and will sometimes succeed). Plus, despite how big the pot has gotten preflop, I'm not sure how happy we should be if we hit TPMK or 2PTK and all the money does go in.

Er, I don't know -- that was just a thought -- but I tend to play more defensively and more trappily against these guys. But despite what I said, the 3-bet probably has some SPR advantages to it. I just worry about my ability to play chicken with a maniac in big pots, and very frequently that's what's going to end up happening.

Anyway, I am tempted to call that river, but I probably decide against it once 5x gets there on the river and Villain suddenly pushes. I'm certainly not confident I didn't lay down the best hand, though.

Hand 3: I know you want to play against this guy, but I probably wait for something better than JTo. The hand did work out for you nicely, though.

Hand 4: It's possible I'm being results-oriented, but I probably just check it back at Villain again on the turn. Part of the idea is to encourage a river bluff (see Hand 3) from hands Villain wouldn't have called with. Also, I'm not confident the maniac is only checkraising better hands. But his line does in fact look trappy, so once you bet and he does checkraise, I think the fold is probably best.

Dr_Doctr · #3 11-25-2007, 08:34 PM

Thanks for the comments -

I think you're right about hand 2. 3-betting here reduces my positional advantage and lessens the room to play postflop where I can decide if I want to play a big pot or not. It doesn't narrow his range much either since he was calling my 3-bets very light and seemed to be under the impression that I was permanently FOS, as evidenced by hand 3. That was probably the biggest advantage though - portraying a loose image. After this hand I started to play more trappy against him and I think you're right about that. Could you tell me what SPR means? The river shove is suspicious but I still think it was a fold - I wanted to see if anyone would jump and say omgwtfinsta-call and give reasons for it that I would immediately agree with.

I was considering a check. I'm really not sure what the right line is here. It might be marginal. If he checks the river you go for a value-bet right? What if he c/rs the river - call? The guy seemed to have some ability to read hands even though he played badly. I basically never check both the flop and turn if I have an A so if i bet the river it would be a great spot for him to c/r bluff. But I may be giving him too much credit. I think it might be harder for him to c/r bluff the turn since an A or sets etc. are definitely still in my range then.

Edit - And yes, you're right about the bad examples too. Just take my word for it - he was definitely very aggressive - lots of raising c-bets, random pot-sized donk bets, overbet shoves etc. - I need to go now but will check later to see if there are more replies.

Nick C · #4 11-25-2007, 08:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Could you tell me what SPR means?

[/ QUOTE ]

The simple answer is that it's short for "stack-to-pot-ratio." It's described in detail in Professional No-Limit Hold 'Em, Vol. 1. Playing preflop with SPR in mind involves trying to manipulate preflop pot sizes so that we can profitably get all-in if we hit the flop. (By "hit the flop," I'm talking about hitting in ways that there's a good chance we will hit, such as flopping an overpair with QQ or TPTK with AK or a set with 55.) For the overpair and top-pair hands, we tend to benefit most from lowish SPRs (such as an SPR of 4), whereas with more speculative hands like the low PPs, an SPR up around 10-15 is fine.

[ QUOTE ]
I was considering a check. I'm really not sure what the right line is here. It might be marginal. If he checks the river you go for a value-bet right? What if he c/rs the river - call? The guy seemed to have some ability to read hands even though he played badly. I basically never check both the flop and turn if I have an A so if i bet the river it would be a great spot for him to c/r bluff. But I may be giving him too much credit. I think it might be harder for him to c/r bluff the turn since an A or sets etc. are definitely still in my range then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if I would go for a value bet on the river if Villain checked again in Hand 4. I guess maybe I should, but versus someone who likes Ax (and it sounds like Villain does), then the board in the hand is one that freezes me up. And in a way the two aces on the board makes it that much harder to bet (well, for me), since people love to slowplay trips (I do realize, though, that three consecutive postflop checks is a pretty damn patient slowplay, but lots of online players are capable of it).

There is the question too of how often Villain will even have a payoff hand. But if he weren't allowed to checkraise, I would like a modest bet. It's the checkraise possibility that makes me hesitate.