My friend got into big trouble

[DespotInExile]

One year ago, a guy I knew looked like this:

Top notch undergrad education. Law degree from a top-5 school. Six-figure salary. Tons of disposable income. New car, lots of toys. Bought a condo.

Then he discovered baby NL, and eventually, PLO. Now he looks like this:

Living with his parents. Sold all of his toys. Fired from two jobs. Lost $75k from January through May 2006. Was on the book with a loanshark whose nickname is "hitman."

Incredible.

[JohnnyHumongous]

Pretty sick. Just goes to show that the money does indeed come from somewhere. Although we often hope that our opponents can afford the losses, it's often the case that they really can't and are ensuring their financial peril. This is a fact I often forget/ignore while playing. Should I/we feel guilty? At the end of the day I guess not... it's a tough world baby girl. If not for poker the guy might have got his gambling fix from penny stocks or forex. All in all though, I feel better when I assume my opponents ran up their cash at lower limits and are just donking off profits...

[compactstu]

Well, of course all online players are "winners". More winners causes more sites to open their doors. Really the most forgotten thing for any upcoming pro is how he or she is able to deal with the stress when you lose for a period of time.

Those people who are extremely happy with their winnings are the first ones throwing all kind of furniture when they start losing. Feeling is a bit dangerous whenever it hits your personal traumas. You better be aware of who you are before becoming a pro.

[JJNJustin]

That'll teach him not to have a successful education and job!

-J

[pizarro1]

[ QUOTE ]
One year ago, a guy I knew looked like this:

Top notch undergrad education. Law degree from a top-5 school. Six-figure salary. Tons of disposable income. New car, lots of toys. Bought a condo.

Then he discovered baby NL, and eventually, PLO. Now he looks like this:

Living with his parents. Sold all of his toys. Fired from two jobs. Lost $75k from January through May 2006. Was on the book with a loanshark whose nickname is "hitman."

Incredible.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact reason why I'm considering quitting poker. I never really realised where all the money came from when you win with poker, but this is exactly an example where I do not want to get my money from. I don't play high stakes, so I'm not playing for big cash like that, but I do play for what would seem a fair amount for most non poker playing people. After a nice tilt-mode of me this week I managed to cut my overall figure down to 450 only, I'm a recreational player and this seems the right time to quit for me. I maybe sound like a douche, maybe I will change my mind over time but right now I feel unethical about playing poker.

[JohnnyHumongous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One year ago, a guy I knew looked like this:

Top notch undergrad education. Law degree from a top-5 school. Six-figure salary. Tons of disposable income. New car, lots of toys. Bought a condo.

Then he discovered baby NL, and eventually, PLO. Now he looks like this:

Living with his parents. Sold all of his toys. Fired from two jobs. Lost $75k from January through May 2006. Was on the book with a loanshark whose nickname is "hitman."

Incredible.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact reason why I'm considering quitting poker. I never really realised where all the money came from when you win with poker, but this is exactly an example where I do not want to get my money from. I don't play high stakes, so I'm not playing for big cash like that, but I do play for what would seem a fair amount for most non poker playing people. After a nice tilt-mode of me this week I managed to cut my overall figure down to 450 only, I'm a recreational player and this seems the right time to quit for me. I maybe sound like a douche, maybe I will change my mind over time but right now I feel unethical about playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the thing though, just as many people get ruined by casino poker, casino slots, casino blackjack, lottery tickets, horsetrack betting etc. etc. etc. as online poker. People gamble, that's all there is to it, and often they gamble to ruin. The casinos don't feel guilty, why should guys like you or I who aren't worth billions and 'need' the money more feel different?

[pizarro1]

What you say might be true Jonhnny, but that doesn't change the fact that when you play poker you're actually contributing to the degeneration of those people. You're right that the same goes for the casinos, but at least that's not because of my doings. Note that I'm ofcourse overexaggerating because it doesn't make a jack difference whether you and I are playing or not, those people would still lose money. Not more not less, but it's just that I feel somewhat responsible for that when I play poker.

[gol4pro]

To all of the people saying that stories like this make them want to quit poker.... I say to you the following.

If you don't take it, someone else will. Degenerate gamblers are going to be degenerate gamblers no matter who they lose the money to (unless there's a huge amount of psychology and history going into them losing a lot of money to you specifically). If nothing else, you can send the money to a good cause like a charity.

[pizarro1]

Well like I said, I probably sound like a douche. It's just that stuff like this makes me thinking about the ethics of gambling, and contributing in the process of gambling. This is how I feel personally about it right now, if you have fun at playing poker (well not always... most times) and win money with it too..... who am I to tell you that you shouldn't. I have to answer yes to both questions but it's just that a personal encounter really made me think about this stuff.

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
Well like I said, I probably sound like a douche. It's just that stuff like this makes me thinking about the ethics of gambling, and contributing in the process of gambling. This is how I feel personally about it right now, if you have fun at playing poker (well not always... most times) and win money with it too..... who am I to tell you that you shouldn't. I have to answer yes to both questions but it's just that a personal encounter really made me think about this stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally understand where you're coming from, and I think about this too. Here's how I rationalize it (because thats exactly what I'm doing).

I'm not playing to make money. I'm playing because I really enjoy poker. And in poker we keep score with money. There's no other way poker could work, because its the fact that money matters to us, that things like bluffs work, that the thrill of chasing draws keeps people in pots even when they shouldn't be (including myself), and so on. So why should I quit playing a game I love because other people can't play it responsibly.

That question then led me to asking how I can rationalize drinking. When I go get trashed at a bar, I'm supporting something that destroys people's lives, just as much (if not more) than gambling. Bars, just like poker players/casinos make most of their money off of people that don't have a problem, but there is a non-trivial group of people who have their lives destroyed because they have access to gambling/booze. By playing poker, by drinking I'm supporting something that ruins lives. In poker there's less of a middle man, but its still the same thing.

But, I can't live my life making sure everything I do, doesn't support something that hurts other people. At some point I have to say, I can gamble/drink responsibly, and those people that can't I can't do anything about. I support organizations like AA and Gambler's anonymous because I think they're necessary, but I won't give up things I love and can use responsibly, just because other people can't.

That being said, it does turn my stomach when I read on this forum when people take a person that has an obvious gambling problem that is effecting their lives and shamelessly manipulate them into spending more money.