2 questions - one about collusion the other about a definition

[DMC0627]

I was at a sng this past weekend, and it was down to 4 people (3 get paid, 4th is the bubble). One guy was very shortstacked, and had just enough to make his bb/ante. Everyone entered the pot. I assumed we were all gonna check it down unless someone flopped big. Flop comes, and sb goes all in. He wasn't shortstacked, and had me covered. I had aj os, didn't connect and folded. I know you aren't supposed to speak about checking down the all in player during the hand, but when this guy went to bet the big stack went off on him.

He basically was like "what are you doing pal? this guy is all in?". Anyway, sb bets, we both fold, all in guy wins with king high. SB had nothing, I would have won with the ace and we would have all gotten in the money. So, after this hand, big stack starts explaining about how you check it down with an all in player, etc. etc. Small stack is pissed, says if someone doesn't know you can't explain it during the game, its collusion. Big stack says you can't explain it during a hand, not the game. Which is true?

Also, I don't understand what "open" the pot means. I know it means the first one in, but when someone says for ex. utg opens, does that mean he bet or just called the blind?

[osoverride]

opening= first bet into the pot.

the collusion mater umm i don't really know what everyone is going to think. personally i would have just assumed that he would unless he thought he was going to beat player x. i would have said something after the hand but not during it.

[Gonso]

Opening usually refers to the first person to raise preflop (technically you can't bet preflop because of the blinds). That's called an open-raise. You can also open-limp.

I've actually heard the term open-fold by a couple guys on cardrunners, but that sounds a little goofy to me.

The collusion thing: no, you can't agree to check a hand down during a hand. You also can't communicate any kind of agreement to cooperate against another player for later hands. It's common strategy to check down hands to eliminate a player, fine, but you just can't do it out loud.

[osoverride]

yep sound about right. better definition then my lol. but i never hear of open-fold. sound strange.

[oddsock]

I hate that sort of action. It's pure idiocy but to tell someone to check-check another out of a tourny is not very good etiquette. Collusion? Maybe.

I would be more tactile is this situation and if I said anything at all it would be something like "Not a tournament player then?".

[PantsOnFire]

Open means the first action by a player who is not in the blinds. So the two choices are open-limp or open-raise (and now that I read the below posts, I remembered open-fold). Technically, SB opened the betting and BB min-raised in blind games. But "open" usually refers to the player that acts first after the BB.

As for your collusion question, I don't think you are allowed to talk about checking it down whether it's a live hand or between hands. You basically cannot discuss team strategy at the poker table.

You are allowed to show displeasure at SB here by saying "what is the purpose of bluffing at a dry side pot?". But you have to be careful not to mention checking it down.

As a side note, there are times that checking it down makes sense and there are other times where a player might wish to let the bubble continue. If I am a big stack and there are two medium stacks and a small stack, I might just want small stack to stay around. Perhaps the medium stacks are simply folding until the bubble bursts. In that case, I will want to build my big stack even bigger because once the bubble bursts, the medium stacks are going to get more aggressive.

In general though, it is a bonehead move to bluff into a dry side pot when somebody is on the brink of elimination.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
yep sound about right. better definition then my lol. but i never hear of open-fold. sound strange.

[/ QUOTE ]
Open-fold is a term that is used rather sparingly. It is generally regarded as a tight action. For example, if you are on the button and it is folded to you, you need pretty bad cards to open-fold. So if someone says a guy "open-folded" on the button, you know this guy was in a prime spot to open-raise steal but chose to fold indicating some level of tightness. On the other hand, open-folding in UTG is pretty common.

[Gonso]

Some of those guys are saying open fold with K4 UTG+2. Think they just like saying ir lol

The collusion thing again - It's definitely against the rules, although with low level donkaments, usually the most I'll do is warm the players they can't do it. By then, it's been done already, but what can you do.

[bobbyi]

As others have said, opening means being the first one to voluntarily put money into the pot. It is a pretty old term; for example, five card draw was sometimes played "jacks or better to open" which means the first person to enter the pot needs at least a pair of jacks (seems like a stupid rule to me, but I don't understand draw).

Technically you can open-raise or open-limp. However, it is fairly common on twoplustwo for people to just say "open" when they mean open-raise; since a lot of people never open-limp, the raising is sort of implied. For example, someone could start out a description of a hand by saying "it folds to me in the cutoff and I open with AK" which generally implies a raise.

"Open-fold" is actually a different term. It usually refers to folding in a situation where there is no bet you. For example, you are first to act on the river and you just throw your cards in the muck rather than betting or checking since you missed your draw. Obviously this is not a tactically sound play.

[osoverride]

[ QUOTE ]
As others have said, opening means being the first one to voluntarily put money into the pot. It is a pretty old term; for example, five card draw was sometimes played "jacks or better to open" which means the first person to enter the pot needs at least a pair of jacks (seems like a stupid rule to me, but I don't understand draw).

Technically you can open-raise or open-limp. However, it is fairly common on twoplustwo for people to just say "open" when they mean open-raise; since a lot of people never open-limp, the raising is sort of implied. For example, someone could start out a description of a hand by saying "it folds to me in the cutoff and I open with AK" which generally implies a raise.

"Open-fold" is actually a different term. It usually refers to folding in a situation where there is no bet you. For example, you are first to act on the river and you just throw your cards in the muck rather than betting or checking since you missed your draw. Obviously this is not a tactically sound play.

[/ QUOTE ]

no its not a sound play but... it is funny when you see this happen.