I'm the first one to admit this is a crazy call

JohnFR · #1 04-12-2006, 03:40 PM

Villain has been playing TERRIBLY, I have seen him chase a gutshot, and bluff a huge amount on river only to get called by top pair. I have seen him value bet with slightly marginal holdings(raised like 500 chips into a 3k chip pot with bottom 2 pair, even though the other guy could have stacked him(there was a 4 straight on the board) but the other guy didn't have straight, but the fact that he reopened the betting made me think donk) So on to the hand, I went with my instincts on this, is this just a horrible horrible call, or one you can occasionally make against a donk?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP2 (t22390)
MP3 (t11335)
CO (t3200)
Button (t7220)
Hero (t16640)
BB (t2650)
UTG (t13555)
UTG+1 (t4550)
MP1 :#A500AF(Villain)/ (t13340)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t150, 1 fold, MP1 :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls t150, 1 fold, MP3 calls t150, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

I almost always complete with 100xBB, mistake?

Flop: (t750) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets t300, BB folds, UTG folds, Villain calls t300, MP3 folds.

I meant to bet 450 but my hands were cold, and I like must have missed the last click but I went to the bet button before my eyes caught it.

Turn: (t1350) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t600, Villain calls t600.

This turn card doesn't scare me as much as others, so I bet into him HU.

River: (t2550) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets t12290 (All-In), Hero calls t12290.

Pretty good card for my hand, and the only way I will get much out of this particular donk will be to check and let him bluff at it. I just felt this was a bluff right away, so I thought for about 10 seconds and called mistake?

Final Pot: t27130

Bakes · #2 04-12-2006, 03:47 PM

If Villain has been playing as terribly as you say, good call on the river. Your reads make this unfoldable.

nath · #3 04-12-2006, 03:50 PM

it's not terrible at all particularly given your read on villain.

Art Vandelay · #4 04-12-2006, 03:51 PM

With this read, I make this call pretty much all the time.

RiverDood · #5 04-12-2006, 03:55 PM

Hmmmn.

You've got an M of about a bazillion. You're playing 93o out of position against a guy who could have any two -- because his play pretty much defies logical reads. You believe he's a much weaker player.

So you decide to build a pot with top pair, no kicker, and to keep building when it becomes second pair, no kicker, on a board with straight possibilities. When that turns into two pair for you, and only 6% of your chips are in the middle, you're ready to call his all-in for just about all your stack.

Lordy. It might work out OK for you. Or he might have a set of threes or 67/7J/JQ to make a straight. Or even a better two pair. In all those cases, your stack just evaporated.

Call me weak-tight, but with that many chips and that much sloppy play all around me, getting involved in this sort of hand -- at every street -- feels very rash. If you give Villain a little more time, he should make some much more obviously stupid play when you've got better cards, no?

bruce · #6 04-12-2006, 04:00 PM

Your logic makes sense except for the fact that he'll probably be busted before you get a chance to play a pot against him. Why not get the chips when you can? True, this is not what I would call and ideal situation, but based on reads calling can't be wrong, or too wrong. I might have found a check in me on the turn, though.

Bruce

JohnFR · #7 04-12-2006, 04:02 PM

Quite the contrary, that turn bet was made for the exact reason of NOT building a pot. I felt I could keep him from betting on the turn by leading, it would suck to check, then for him to put in a big bet that I can't call, especially when I feel that I am going to be ahead almost everytime here. And just for the record, I was going to lead the river if a face card, an A, a 7, a 3 or 9 didn't hit, I was going to check fold face cards, A and 7, and I was probably going to check call a 9 or 3 depending on my instincts.

mic_check12 · #8 04-12-2006, 04:20 PM

I almost always complete when i have 100x too but 93o one of the hands i don't complete with. I play the rest of the hand the same way given your reads

RiverDood · #9 04-12-2006, 04:32 PM

So it's a blocking bet on the turn.

Tactically that makes perfect sense. It's kind of annoying to be at a situation, though, where 20 cards on the river leave us playing check/fold. And that's on a board that was "favorable" to our 93o starting hand.

I'm all in favor of completing with funky hands from the SB in the middle stages of a tournament when we can do so cheaply. But wouldn't 97o or 43o be more appealing? If we've got a straight draw, then there's a chance we can play confidently for a very big pot. Even allowing for the fact that we're playing against a loon, 93o just seems like a ticket to headaches.

That said, if he pushed with KK or AT or something that you beat, bravo to you! You've got more guts than I do.

JohnFR · #10 04-12-2006, 04:33 PM

he had KQo