most passive QQ i've played in recent memory...alternatives? - Page 2

MitchL · #11 11-25-2007, 02:53 AM

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Someone told me the 20 was all but dead at Foxwoods, this cant be true...can it?

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if by "all but dead" that someone means "amazingly alive and great" or "way worse than a time when it was the greatest game in the history of the world" then "it" is true.

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Hand: bob opens from EP (i think UTG+1). folded to me i 3bet QQ. folded back to him and he caps i call.

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There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

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first off, it is an effective cap imo. when he 4 bets, why would i 5 bet AA/KK here? that just tips him off too much and thus i shouldn't 5 bet QQ. and why should i 5 bet AK? so basically 5 betting:

A) gives away my positional advantage since he knows with too high a confidence level my range

2) nets me only an additional small bet.

and D) hurts my ability to get as many big bets as i could have if i just called (related to number A above)

second off, why shouldn't he 4bet TT pf vs. me, nevermind JJ?

that imo is very standard as it has many advantages that help to override some of my positional advantage. this is fairly standard at least in any online full ring game i've played and have discussed this with many great players and have no doubt in my mind that 4 betting (with a cap, even an effective one though i don't think bob necessarilyt hought that) TT/JJ in bob's shoes is good.

thanks for your input,
Barron

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I would rather err on the side of capping so wide of range that your hand cant be discerned rather than rarely capping, bc of the info it gives. You are forgoing too much value pf and making the bb streets very difficult.

Joe Tall · #12 11-25-2007, 02:57 AM

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Someone told me the 20 was all but dead at Foxwoods, this cant be true...can it?

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if by "all but dead" that someone means "amazingly alive and great" or "way worse than a time when it was the greatest game in the history of the world" then "it" is true.

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Hand: bob opens from EP (i think UTG+1). folded to me i 3bet QQ. folded back to him and he caps i call.

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There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

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first off, it is an effective cap imo. when he 4 bets, why would i 5 bet AA/KK here? that just tips him off too much and thus i shouldn't 5 bet QQ. and why should i 5 bet AK? so basically 5 betting:

A) gives away my positional advantage since he knows with too high a confidence level my range

2) nets me only an additional small bet.

and D) hurts my ability to get as many big bets as i could have if i just called (related to number A above)

second off, why shouldn't he 4bet TT pf vs. me, nevermind JJ?

that imo is very standard as it has many advantages that help to override some of my positional advantage. this is fairly standard at least in any online full ring game i've played and have discussed this with many great players and have no doubt in my mind that 4 betting (with a cap, even an effective one though i don't think bob necessarilyt hought that) TT/JJ in bob's shoes is good.

thanks for your input,
Barron

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My statement about the cap has nothing to do with weather you should 5-bet.

DcifrThs · #13 11-25-2007, 02:59 AM

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Someone told me the 20 was all but dead at Foxwoods, this cant be true...can it?

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if by "all but dead" that someone means "amazingly alive and great" or "way worse than a time when it was the greatest game in the history of the world" then "it" is true.

[ QUOTE ]

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Hand: bob opens from EP (i think UTG+1). folded to me i 3bet QQ. folded back to him and he caps i call.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

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first off, it is an effective cap imo. when he 4 bets, why would i 5 bet AA/KK here? that just tips him off too much and thus i shouldn't 5 bet QQ. and why should i 5 bet AK? so basically 5 betting:

A) gives away my positional advantage since he knows with too high a confidence level my range

2) nets me only an additional small bet.

and D) hurts my ability to get as many big bets as i could have if i just called (related to number A above)

second off, why shouldn't he 4bet TT pf vs. me, nevermind JJ?

that imo is very standard as it has many advantages that help to override some of my positional advantage. this is fairly standard at least in any online full ring game i've played and have discussed this with many great players and have no doubt in my mind that 4 betting (with a cap, even an effective one though i don't think bob necessarilyt hought that) TT/JJ in bob's shoes is good.

thanks for your input,
Barron

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I would rather err on the side of capping so wide of range that your hand cant be discerned rather than rarely capping, bc of the info it gives. You are forgoing too much value pf and making the bb streets very difficult.

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so you conclude the opposite, then?

in that case, what should my 5 betting range be in position in this spot? [TT+, AQs+]?

Barron

MitchL · #14 11-25-2007, 03:09 AM

I am retarded and should read the whole post first. You are not capping here it is hu. If this is a standard tight guy I would 5bet KK and just call with AA and QQ. I dont have any real reason for capping KK except that when you are up against hands like JJ or QQ that you have dominated you will be glad that you got the extra value when board comes bad for their hand. Obv, you can afford to be more deceptive with AA in this spot since you are a huge favorite over anything he would 4bet here.

DcifrThs · #15 11-25-2007, 03:11 AM

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I am retarded and should read the whole post first. You are not capping here it is hu. If this is a standard tight guy I would 5bet KK and just call with AA and QQ. I dont have any real reason for capping KK except that when you are up against hands like JJ or QQ that you have dominated you will be glad that you got the extra value when board comes bad for their hand. Obv, you can afford to be more deceptive with AA in this spot since you are a huge favorite over anything he would 4bet here.

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so you are in favor of 5betting exactly 1 hand?

i don't think there is an argument in the world that would make that correct. it woudl allow bob to play 100% perfectly against my when i 5 bet.

Barron

MitchL · #16 11-25-2007, 03:15 AM

Well if this spot is coming up so much or you are playing alot of hrs with this guy then you obviously have to start 5betting with QQ and AA, but it is so rare it shouldn't matter that much.

PokerBob · #17 11-25-2007, 03:24 AM

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the only questionable street is the river.

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so then what should my folding frequency be here?

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I think this depends a great deal on recent history between the two of you.

DcifrThs · #18 11-25-2007, 03:28 AM

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the only questionable street is the river.

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so then what should my folding frequency be here?

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I think this depends a great deal on recent history between the two of you.

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i dont think i could fold that river since id ont' think he'd ever check that river w/ JJ assuming nothing strange/crazy/wierd was goign on between us recently.

Barron

PokerBob · #19 11-25-2007, 03:31 AM

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the only questionable street is the river.

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so then what should my folding frequency be here?

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I think this depends a great deal on recent history between the two of you.

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i dont think i could fold that river since id ont' think he'd ever check that river w/ JJ assuming nothing strange/crazy/wierd was goign on between us recently.

Barron

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i'm more worried about him bluffing AK here.

dcb777 · #20 11-25-2007, 03:39 AM

I know Bob very well, and I would 5 bet preflop and take it from there. He is a very good player and very very aggresive. I would personally play the hand faster vs him, but it all depends on how he perceives you.

I could 5 bet him preflop and put a few bets in on the flop and still feel very confident about my hand, but that is b/c we have so much history and try to beat each other in every hand.