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#11
10-09-2007, 12:39 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Because for any racist business that exists, a competitor can start a similar business minus the racism, and he would be more successful. [/ QUOTE ] Your conclusion that racist businesses will "die out" is false and doesn't follow from this. As long as there is a "significant" minority who would prefer, everything else being equal, a segregated business to a non segregated business, we can expect both the racist business and the non-racist business to both survive, as the racists will continue going to the first business. A business doesn't have to be "more succesful" than all of its competitors to survive, but simply has to make a profit, that is, get enough customers. In a town with 100 restaurants, 50 restaurants are "more successful" than each and everyone of the other 50, but that does not mean the other 50 dissapear. In fact, we can assume that, given a decent sized minority of racists in an area, that people could and would successfully create segregated businesses that are otherwise similar to non-segregated businesses, as the racist customers currently going to the non-segregated business would decide to go to the segregated one instead, and filling this niche would be quite profitable in some cases. [/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't people be allowed to patronize the types of businesses that they want. 
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#12
10-09-2007, 12:48 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Because for any racist business that exists, a competitor can start a similar business minus the racism, and he would be more successful. [/ QUOTE ] Your conclusion that racist businesses will "die out" is false and doesn't follow from this. As long as there is a "significant" minority who would prefer, everything else being equal, a segregated business to a non segregated business, we can expect both the racist business and the non-racist business to both survive, as the racists will continue going to the first business. A business doesn't have to be "more succesful" than all of its competitors to survive, but simply has to make a profit, that is, get enough customers. In a town with 100 restaurants, 50 restaurants are "more successful" than each and everyone of the other 50, but that does not mean the other 50 dissapear. In fact, we can assume that, given a decent sized minority of racists in an area, that people could and would successfully create segregated businesses that are otherwise similar to non-segregated businesses, as the racist customers currently going to the non-segregated business would decide to go to the segregated one instead, and filling this niche would be quite profitable in some cases. [/ QUOTE ] Why can't nielsio be free?. [/ QUOTE ] fyp
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#13
10-09-2007, 12:54 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
In general, they should. However, in some scenarios this conflicts with other, perhaps more important freedoms, as I illustrated before.
[ QUOTE ] One purpose of the act was to grant freedom (namely the freedom from the arbitrary discrimination and racist preferences of others to the marginalized group), not punish the racist owner. When some employers are allowed to be racist, the ability of individuals in the marginalized group to pursue there freely choosen ends is limited: not only in the case of what restaurants they can patronize, but also in the amount of jobs they open to them (this then would leave the demand for there labor lower, lessening the wage/salary that they can get in the market). [/ QUOTE ] A person's ability to pursue there chosen life plans and access to necessary resources should not depend on the arbitrary preferences of others, on what other people think of them, especially when what other people think of them is both unjust and incorrect. To allow freedom to depend on that is collectivist i.e. anti-individualist (certain individuals have difficulty pursuing there life goals because of what the collectivity thinks of them) and inegalitarian.
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#14
10-09-2007, 12:58 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
A person's ability to pursue there chosen life plans and access to necessary resources should not depend on the arbitrary preferences of others, on what other people think of them, especially when what other people think of them is both unjust and incorrect. [/ QUOTE ] I want to take a big crap in your living room. It's my life plan. Your arbitrary preference that I not do this is unjust and incorrect imo. Come on, who the [censored] has a "life plan" about eating at Denny's?
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#15
10-09-2007, 01:03 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
That's true, moorobot, and I was wrong to say they would die out completely, as long as the percentage of racists stays the same or increases over time.
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#16
10-09-2007, 01:05 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A person's ability to pursue there chosen life plans and access to necessary resources should not depend on the arbitrary preferences of others, on what other people think of them, especially when what other people think of them is both unjust and incorrect. [/ QUOTE ] I want to take a big crap in your living room. It's my life plan. Your arbitrary preference that I not do this is unjust and incorrect imo. Come on, who the [censored] has a "life plan" about eating at Denny's? [/ QUOTE ] Oh, PVN, you have such a way with words. I'm sorry it took me until now to recognize it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#17
10-09-2007, 01:41 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
Conveniently you ignore the part about jobs, and the fact that people in dozens of countries have overcome difficult collective action problems to gain the freedom you are trivializing in the analogy.
We could give good reasons for showing why racism is incorrect and an unjust, but we could not give good reasons why someone enjoying a carpet is unjust and incorrect. Almost nobody cares about the ability the freedom you are speaking about, while millions of people struggled for the freedoms I was speaking about. Your analogy illuminates how you see the world but does not illuminate the world itself. To think that someone would compare the freedom from racism with the freedom to defecate on somebody else's property is, quite frankly, both frightening and appalling.
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#18
10-09-2007, 01:55 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
moorobot,
If the OP is right and the mechanisms of the market will bring us to a certain amount of racist businesses (hopefully a very low amount), then that'll happen regardless of the initial conditions. So there's no reason for anyone to argue your points about the bad situations for jobs and education: they might mean we're starting farther from the final equilibrium, they may even mean we get there slower, but they don't change where we're going.
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#19
10-09-2007, 02:34 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
which one has better food?
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#20
10-09-2007, 03:03 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
Any thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] 1. For a voluntary society, racism isn't a concern. Whether it dies out, stays the same or gets stronger is irrelevant. 2. For a modern state it is a problem when it interfers with the principle of equality. 3. In a voluntary society equality is not a concern, only freedom is. And that..that is pretty much it.
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