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#141
10-10-2007, 04:57 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
Bringing Borodog's comment from the other thread into this one:
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So, if we removed Jim Crow laws from 1950 Alabama and did nothing else, the South would integrate? How long do you think that'd take? Longer than ~25 years (one generation)? [/ QUOTE ] Who knows? Maybe never. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Lol. Have you read the Civil Rights Act of 1964? It's tough to find a single piece of legislation that more comprehensively weakened private property rights, freedom of association and freedom of contract. [/ QUOTE ] When you and pvn take your campaign to educate the masses on the merits of ancap-ism to the public at large, make sure to start off with these two talking points in tandem. I feel they quite accurately sum the debate up. 
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#142
10-10-2007, 05:56 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
Bringing Borodog's comment from the other thread into this one: [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So, if we removed Jim Crow laws from 1950 Alabama and did nothing else, the South would integrate? How long do you think that'd take? Longer than ~25 years (one generation)? [/ QUOTE ] Who knows? Maybe never. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Lol. Have you read the Civil Rights Act of 1964? It's tough to find a single piece of legislation that more comprehensively weakened private property rights, freedom of association and freedom of contract. [/ QUOTE ] When you and pvn take your campaign to educate the masses on the merits of ancap-ism to the public at large, make sure to start off with these two talking points in tandem. I feel they quite accurately sum the debate up. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. A lot of people do seem to decide issues based upon their emotional reaction, rather than calmly considering the ramifications. Politics 101: Intentions >>>>>>>>> Results
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#143
10-10-2007, 08:41 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
Yes. A lot of people do seem to decide issues based upon their emotional reaction, rather than calmly considering the ramifications. Politics 101: Intentions >>>>>>>>> Results [/ QUOTE ] Well, if you wanna talk about *results*, if we took a time machine back to '64, pvn and Borodog would almost certainly both be filibustering the Act, along with Ron Paul and such fantastic, visionary politicians as Strom Thurmond and Richard Russell ("We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states.") If I were results-oriented, I might even lump them all into the 'historical, enormous failure to lead' group. In fact, earlier in this very thread, pvn concedes he doesn't know whether the South would ever have integrated on its own. Certainly, without the National Guard involved (Would pvn have been voting for or against sending them out? Should I make a guess?), it would likely have taken generations longer. So, again, speaking solely in a results-oriented manner, pvn pretty much condemns an extra generation or two of black Southerners to segregation, all in the name of that "complete freedom" crock we were talking about earlier. Mine mine mine mine mine mine.
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#144
10-10-2007, 09:15 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yes. A lot of people do seem to decide issues based upon their emotional reaction, rather than calmly considering the ramifications. Politics 101: Intentions >>>>>>>>> Results [/ QUOTE ] Well, if you wanna talk about *results*, if we took a time machine back to '64, pvn and Borodog would almost certainly both be filibustering the Act, along with Ron Paul and such fantastic, visionary politicians as Strom Thurmond and Richard Russell ("We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states.") If I were results-oriented, I might even lump them all into the 'historical, enormous failure to lead' group. In fact, earlier in this very thread, pvn concedes he doesn't know whether the South would ever have integrated on its own. Certainly, without the National Guard involved (Would pvn have been voting for or against sending them out? Should I make a guess?), it would likely have taken generations longer. So, again, speaking solely in a results-oriented manner, pvn pretty much condemns an extra generation or two of black Southerners to segregation, all in the name of that "complete freedom" crock we were talking about earlier. Mine mine mine mine mine mine. [/ QUOTE ] Segregation in what regard? I tried to join Augusta National, but they won't let me in. Am I being "segregated?" Again, segregation as it existed in the south was *state-mandated*. But don't let facts get in your way.
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#145
10-10-2007, 09:15 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Would that make Murray Rothbard an Aryan Jew? [/ QUOTE ] I didn't say they were all racists, but it there appears to be more than the normal distribution.... [/ QUOTE ] Can you name one who is a racist? [/ QUOTE ] Bump.
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#146
10-10-2007, 09:59 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yes. A lot of people do seem to decide issues based upon their emotional reaction, rather than calmly considering the ramifications. Politics 101: Intentions >>>>>>>>> Results [/ QUOTE ] Well, if you wanna talk about *results*, if we took a time machine back to '64, pvn and Borodog would almost certainly both be filibustering the Act, along with Ron Paul and such fantastic, visionary politicians as Strom Thurmond and Richard Russell ("We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states.") If I were results-oriented, I might even lump them all into the 'historical, enormous failure to lead' group. In fact, earlier in this very thread, pvn concedes he doesn't know whether the South would ever have integrated on its own. Certainly, without the National Guard involved (Would pvn have been voting for or against sending them out? Should I make a guess?), it would likely have taken generations longer. So, again, speaking solely in a results-oriented manner, pvn pretty much condemns an extra generation or two of black Southerners to segregation, all in the name of that "complete freedom" crock we were talking about earlier. Mine mine mine mine mine mine. [/ QUOTE ] The market is about prevention not cure! In a free market things would never have been segregated in the first place, it took the state to make it cost effective.
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#147
10-10-2007, 10:06 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
The market is about prevention not cure! In a free market things would never have been segregated in the first place, it took the state to make it cost effective. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know which part of that to take issue with first. There have been plenty of non-state societies (even current ones) that discriminate against or just plain kill outsiders, so the implication that the state is the root cause can be tossed out. There have also been plenty of failed states or barely functional states where mass discrimination *came into being* after the failure and/or the state was the one actor keeping the lid on it (lol Iraq). But forget about all that since we're results oriented. All we want to do in 2007 (or 1964) is to end segregation; the root cause, hundreds/thousands of years in the past, is rather irrelevant. Does letting the market take care of it fix it faster than the Civil Rights Act? Does it fix it at all? Note that pvn doesn't care.
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#148
10-10-2007, 10:40 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
But forget about all that since we're results oriented. All we want to do in 2007 (or 1964) is to end segregation; the root cause, hundreds/thousands of years in the past, is rather irrelevant. Does letting the market take care of it fix it faster than the Civil Rights Act? Does it fix it at all? Note that pvn doesn't care. [/ QUOTE ] Please show your calculations.
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#149
10-10-2007, 10:41 AM
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Re: Do You Support the Civil Rights Act?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The market is about prevention not cure! In a free market things would never have been segregated in the first place, it took the state to make it cost effective. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know which part of that to take issue with first. There have been plenty of non-state societies (even current ones) that discriminate against or just plain kill outsiders, so the implication that the state is the root cause can be tossed out. There have also been plenty of failed states or barely functional states where mass discrimination *came into being* after the failure and/or the state was the one actor keeping the lid on it (lol Iraq). But forget about all that since we're results oriented. All we want to do in 2007 (or 1964) is to end segregation; the root cause, hundreds/thousands of years in the past, is rather irrelevant. Does letting the market take care of it fix it faster than the Civil Rights Act? Does it fix it at all? Note that pvn doesn't care. [/ QUOTE ] Ok so there are 4 possibliities. All people want segregation State : Segregated people have the full force of the state against them Free Market : Segregated people are still shut out of most interactions but can set up their own communities. Most people want segregation State : Segregated people have the full force of the state against them Free Market : Segregated people can interact with those that don't want segregation and within their own communities. Most people don't want segregation State : Those that want segregation feel oppressed and hold resentment for the minority "ruining their lives" THey can blame their failure on reverse discrimination. Both sides try to take control of the state power system to enforce their will on the others. Free Market : Those that want segregation can have it but are generally outcompeted by those that cater to all. Some area will be segregated and will be easy to steer clear of for any sensible person. Noone wants segregation State : No problem but no need for laws Free Market : No problem
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