A hypothetical situation NL

[jay_shark]

This post may generate some controversy as the correct action may not appear to be so obvious .

Lets say your opponent tells you that he will push with any two cards only on the first hand . There is no trickery involved and that he will in fact live up to his word . If you fold , then he will play his usual solid game on subsequent hands .

You pick up q-7o , a hand that is slightly better than a random hand but not enough to beat the rake . What's your play ??

What if you pick up q-8 , does anything change ??

[hra146]

lol? fold.

[derosnec]

call. after some snooping around on my own and asking some sng experts practically the same question, it turns out that while your +cEV call here is probably -$EV, folding is even more -$EV. So you should call.

edit: unless you think you have a skill edge over your opponent. then fold.

[TNixon]

Man, I need to track down whoever told me K8 is the cutoff hand for calling all-in against any 2.

Although, if you do take rake into account (which I honestly believe you should in a case this marginal), K7/K8o is around where you start to beat the rake.

I would want a lot stronger than Q8 to call this though. My variance is bad enough as it is. (Down over 10 buyins today on the most supersick series of beats dealt by the worst players on the planet that I've seen in a long time) No need to make it any worse.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[LordMushroom2]

The better the opponent is, the worse hand I will call with. If he is equally skilled/incompetent as me, I will call as long as it is +cEV to do so.

[jay_shark]

I believe both of these hands have clear cut decisions .

First , I will assume you're a profitable player so you expect to earn some positive amount per hand .

Your equity for q-7 is about 51.8% . Your $/hand if you make the call is (2*(buy-in -rake)*.518 - buyin )/hand < 0 . Clearly your $/hand is a negative number so you would elect to fold . On the other hand , as Lordmushroom pointed out , if you're a lousy player then you would be glad to call in this spot since you minimize your losses .

2) With q-8 , your equity is around 53.5 % which means your $/hand is (2*(buyin -rake)*0.535 - buyin)/hand =(buyin-rake)*0.02/hand

So if your buy in is 105 , then you profit $2 for every hand . If you fold , you must believe that your worth is more than $2/hand . Therefore even if you expect to win 67% of the time and your average duration is about 30 hands , then your $/h is $29/(30 hand) which means you're making a mistake if you fold q-8 .

This is more closer to the truth if it is given that we have a game waiting for us once the match ends .

[xSCWx]

Does this change if it is an SNG?

[jay_shark]

The reason why you would call in a cash game is also true in an SNG . Again , this is assuming that you have a game waiting for you and that your opponent will only push all in on the first hand but play regularly the rest .

[jay_shark]

[ QUOTE ]
Man, I need to track down whoever told me K8 is the cutoff hand for calling all-in against any 2.



[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what you're trying to maximize . If you wish to maximize your $/hour or $/hand , then you can do slightly better by calling with hands a little worse than k-8 . Note that it's incorrect to try to maximize your win % .

Anything with a 54%+ equity should do the trick .

If you expect to win 66% of the time and on average it should take you 10 hands to accomplish this (which is being generous) , then your $/hand = 0.27*(buyin-rake)/10hands .
So if buy-in -rake =100 , then you expect to profit $2.7 /hand .

Calling with something like k-6 (54.1%) assures you that your $/h playing with a $105 buy in is $3.2/hand .

As you can see , Ive shown that you can do better than calling with k-8 if you make a reasonable stipulation as I made above .

[Nichomacheo]

jay got aim?