Johnny Hughes romanticises liars, cheats and scum, why ???

[MiltonFriedman]

Johnny,

You wrote in the latest Sklansky-Brandi thread, "As for me, I respect the cons more ... [than the honest suckers]"

Why ? Because cons found someone who acted on trust and then violated that trust ? What is "respectable", the ferreting out or luring of a victim or the act of thievery ?

(An honest outlaw is different than a con. An honest offshore sportsbook operator for example is an outlaw, but not a thief.....and yes, there are a lot of honest sportsbook operators, just like there are honest poker operators.)

Respect a con/thief ? Why ??? I agree that they have entertainment value in telling stories, but so does Bozo the Clown or Scooby-Doo.

Someone who decides to be an outlaw, fine. I have been around and dealt with all sorts all my life. However, it is silly to romanticise self-centered conduct. It is socially retarded. In contrast to a con/thief, an honest outlaw may provide a social service demanded by the market, but not allowed by the law.

In the context of poker, did liars and cheats bring poker to the millions of players who play online? No way. Skilled poker players can thank to online entrepeneurs, not Johnny Moss. (As karma would have it, I would guess that Dikshit made a LOT more from poker than Johnny Moss.)

(I have respect for Doyle, because he can PLAY and because he works an image well, NOT because he may have pulled a con or not. He is good for the game and the players generally.)

Johnny, you tell entertaining stories, but some thug who pulls a gun because he loses or decides to rob you is fearful, but deserves no respect. That someone pulls a cold deck out and robs you that way is no better and socially retarded.

Respectfully,

Milton

[Maple Leafs]

Over-under on rickroll bannings from this thread?

[Banditgberg]

The pocket camera too...

[glimmertwin]

[ QUOTE ]

Why ? Because cons found someone who acted on trust and then violated that trust ? What is "respectable", the ferreting out or luring of a victim or the act of thievery ?


[/ QUOTE ]

While I wouldn't go as far as Johnny, and suspect that it was the writer in him making an entertaining rhetorical point rather than a sincere belief he was expressing, I do understand what he's talking about.

Like the poker player, the good con artist lives by their wits and makes their fortune from the sucker's greed. Remember the saying, you can't cheat an honest man? Almost all great cons live and die by that motto, so they tend to view their victims as somebody who would get over on them if they could, but they just aren't smart enough. This is precisely the same basis on which poker players justify their winnings.

The reason for this is that the con man wants to avoid people who will go to the police to report the con, so they set up a situation in which the sucker either thinks they are conning the con artist (e.g. three card monte etc.) or in which con man and sucker are co-conspirators in a larger crime that ultimately turns bad (e.g. the nigerian 419 scams, etc)

In that sense, con artists represent the elite of the criminal fraternity because they live by their wits, the crimes they commit have a sense of both drama and style about them because of the amount of intellectual effort involved, and the fact that each crime evolves differently and can't simply be learned by rote but requires a high level of creativity to be successful.

So while it's obviously wrong and an antisocial act, if you *are* going to root for an outlaw, give me a con artist over some bean-counting off-shore bookie any day of the week.

[Don Olney]

the old time CONMAN and Gambler was 100% more a gentleman than the majority of internet players today.
I much rather read Mr. Hughes stuff than read/see what these internet guys are up to.

KEEP THEM COMING JOHNNY------

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
the old time CONMAN and Gambler was 100% more a gentleman than the majority of internet players today.
I much rather read Mr. Hughes stuff than read/see what these internet guys are up to.

KEEP THEM COMING JOHNNY------

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give Johnny one thing...he tells a pretty decent story. Sometimes you need a little "deciphering" to get the full effect but good story nonetheless.

With internet players you get:

lol bn plz ur stry sux hu 4 rolz u ol' gezer

[luckyjimm]

In my thread "Should I steal this money?", Johnny Hughes calls me a whining whimp, tells me never to steal anything small, and says I give gamblers a bad name. It hurt a bit since I really like his posts, but heck he had a point. Here's something he wrote in that thread about stealing:

"It does not matter to me what a man does to get the money to play poker. I've never judged others. I used to play with a guy who stole copper, aluminum, etc. at night. He'd be around the poker joint all day. One time this Art Professor who worked in metal figures got in a discussion with this thief about melting down varied metals. They both knew their stuff. If you are going to be a thief, be a better one. Quit looking at stealing on the small and figure some better thieving.

When I was really broke, we'd steal food from the richie's garage freezers. You can go into a supermarket and graze. I still do that, being cheap is my hobby. I also breeze through the Holiday Inn for free coffee, free big cookies, free apples, the Wall Street Journal and the local newspaper, herbal tea bags that I take home. If you dress nice, you can go to Happy Hours and hit the buffet and move on. At any motel that provides free breakfast, I stroll in and serve myself. If I am ever caught, I'll say I am just checking in. Around any casino, you can find food, food comps. If you are going to be broke, learn how to be broke. If you are going to be a thief, learn how to steal properly."

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

[The Bride]

There's a difference between respecting somebody and being respectable. If you don't give a theif respect, you will underestimate them, and if you underestimate them you run the risk of being the sucker.

Some of the planning and organization that goes on behind some crimes is phenomenal. You don't have to approve of what they are doing, but you have to respect it.

[okterrific]

[ QUOTE ]


KEEP THEM COMING JOHNNY------

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Don says, keep them coming. Its interesting to hear this POV and how it was back then (and maybe still is?). Stealing might be bad but Johnnys stories are great.

also ive always kind of respected a criminal who can steal/profit without ever using violence. I dont know maybe its b/c psychologically i put myself in the victims shoes and id sure as hell would rather get my wallet lifted without ever knowing it then have some thug beat me over the head with a baseball bat. i dont know.

[traxamillion]

"ive always kind of respected a criminal who can steal/profit without ever using violence"

This guy is a boss.