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  #41  
Old 10-22-2007, 05:07 PM
JPFisher55 JPFisher55 is offline
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Default Re: For all the \"pro-regulation\" advocates dancing on Absolute\'s head

I think that the sanctions imposed by the WTO will greatly affect what happens with online gambling in US. IF WTO grants IP sanctions, then US will be forced to open online gambling to foreign operators. No other country attempts to regulate or tax operators in foreign countries. Even the recent UK regs and taxes only affect operators located in the UK.
So if WTO really cracks down, it will not accept a law such as IGREA that attempts to regulate foreign online gambling concerns.
Also, I really believe that these state laws prohibiting an individual from online gambling in his own home will be declared to violate the privacy rights under the US constitution. I cannot see how one has the right to gay sex in one's home, but not the right to gamble online.
Of course, Congress can regulate online gambling operators located in US, which is why I doubt that they will arise anytime soon. Most states already have licensing, taxation and other regulations that would apply to any business located in a state that offers online gambling services. I believe that such laws and/or federal such laws will prevent operators of online gambling site in US from being able to compete with foreign competitors.
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  #42  
Old 10-22-2007, 05:20 PM
TheEngineer TheEngineer is offline
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Default Re: For all the \"pro-regulation\" advocates dancing on Absolute\'s head ...

[ QUOTE ]
If someone chooses to play an offshore site rather than MGMpoker.com or Harrahspoker.com, shame on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Meant to write: If someone chooses to play an offshore site and gets hosed, shame on them. They knew (or should have known) the risks and associated trade-offs.
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  #43  
Old 10-22-2007, 05:25 PM
TheEngineer TheEngineer is offline
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Default Re: For all the \"pro-regulation\" advocates dancing on Absolute\'s head

[ QUOTE ]
That said, I will play FTP as long as they let me and feel no shame (I dont think thats the way you meant it TE, but I had to respond anyway). I would hope FTP would be one the first licensed legal sites, but if they are prevented from becoming one, I will still play there out of thanks for their being there for us after the UIGEA passed and the others split. The same can be said for Stars and the other US friendly sites - except Absolute for obvious other reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree. No matter what happens in the future, I'll always play FT and/or PS at least a little out of respect for the loyalty they showed us. Had they pulled out, we'd be in a much weaker position.

Well, time to meet and greet! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #44  
Old 10-22-2007, 08:46 PM
Hock_ Hock_ is offline
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Default Re: Adanthar, reflect a bit , markets work, laws already apply to this.

[ QUOTE ]
There is NO way that "regulation" would be a net benefit to US players.

[/ QUOTE ]

This does not follow from the rest of your points at all. There is a very real chance that all on-line gaming, including poker, will be effectively off-limits to all US residents at some point in the not so distant future. A regulated industry is clearly superior to that outcome.

I share your preference for the free market, but I think harping on it is counter-productive in this situation. We need to focus on the points that have the best chance of success and present a clear, consistent message. It's hard enough to convince legislators that on-line gaming shouldn't be banned. And almost all legislators tend to be anti-market; their jobs depend on regulating. So although you can to talk all you like about how great the market is, in practical terms, given our objective, I think it's at best academic and at worst counter-productive. IMO, the way to go is to argue that regulation wil help prevent the supposed problems with on-line gaming while also producing substantial tax revenues.
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  #45  
Old 10-22-2007, 09:42 PM
Legislurker Legislurker is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 728
Default Re: For all the \"pro-regulation\" advocates dancing on Absolute\'s head

[ QUOTE ]
I think that the sanctions imposed by the WTO will greatly affect what happens with online gambling in US. IF WTO grants IP sanctions, then US will be forced to open online gambling to foreign operators. No other country attempts to regulate or tax operators in foreign countries. Even the recent UK regs and taxes only affect operators located in the UK.
So if WTO really cracks down, it will not accept a law such as IGREA that attempts to regulate foreign online gambling concerns.
Also, I really believe that these state laws prohibiting an individual from online gambling in his own home will be declared to violate the privacy rights under the US constitution. I cannot see how one has the right to gay sex in one's home, but not the right to gamble online.
Of course, Congress can regulate online gambling operators located in US, which is why I doubt that they will arise anytime soon. Most states already have licensing, taxation and other regulations that would apply to any business located in a state that offers online gambling services. I believe that such laws and/or federal such laws will prevent operators of online gambling site in US from being able to compete with foreign competitors.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the WTO works for us, we need to be lobbying for the US to join with the UK on the white list. Perhaps expand it. Form a government sponsored testing and auditing site. The right to advertize in an unfettered manner and be placed in people's MINDS as more safe and secure is a big carrot. They won't have to submit to it, but I think most of the long run operations will want to. Id like to see a large bond required as well, bigger than any one prize on offer at a book/poker room/casino where if they refuse to pay, the bond is pulled and given to the player. Word of mouth is strong and amateur detection as has been proved by this, but
we also need a government seal of approval to market a legitimate product to the masses.
Look at the free market in the gaming world overall, how many F rated books are there at SBR? People still give their money to be stolen year after year to rogue books. Five minutes googling should give you safe good books or casinos, but rogue ones pop up all the time. The programmers, managers, processors, and CS reps work with poker as well as those places. You think 90% of them give a [censored] if we get cheated now and then? If anything this episode( I can't even call it a debacle) has shown they can get away with it with little or no risk. But not if they lost advertizing priviliges, faced jail, or lost a posted bond.
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