Gutshot....gutshot... pair!

LearnedfromTV · #1 09-27-2007, 12:15 AM

I don't use blocking bets very often, but I did it twice at the stars 33r 6-max final table tonight. Wondering what you guys think and what you would do instead if you don't like it. In both cases, I'm making a thin value bet, expecting that I won't get bluff raised, and that often, better hands will have raised earlier in the hand. Any or all of these assumptions may be off. Also, please nitpick the bet sizing.

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Hand 1:

We're threehanded, and have been threehanded for a while. Generally the table is very aggressive, lots of 3bets and 4bets the entire final table; but there has been occasional sb limping lately (in part, probably because everyone was 3betting so wide; also, I do this more than most people), especially since we got to blind/stack ratios that were conducive to resteal shoves (stacks have equalized a bit, but for most of the 2.5/5 and 3/6 levels, someone had ~15bb). The button in this hand (not the villain) has limped his button once or twice, and I've also been in three or four limped hu pots with the villain. None of those pots got past the turn, it seems that neither of us had anything and neither of us tried to make an expensive bluff, so whoever made the cheap bluff (cbet or one-street float) won the pot. Villain has been very aggressive preflop and post and is a thinking player.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t6000 (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t136114)
Button (t181862)
Hero (t159024)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t10200) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t6000, BB calls t6000.

Turn: (t22200) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t18000, BB calls t18000.

River: (t58200) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t24000,

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Hand 2:

Headsup with the other guy (button from hand 1). 3rd hand of headsup. He's solid (ryanbluf, he's currently the chipleader at the 215 second chance 6max w/ 10 left), he and I have a lot of 3bet/4bet history, and there's the normal level of mutual distrust. For example, his flop call range is way wider than pairs, and he's probably not folding any pair on the turn. He also will raise with a variety of holdings, including, I assume, his stronger hands, on either the flop or turn. Although most of our history was in raised pots, he limped his button and his SB/my BB a few times three-handed, and showed normal levels of postflop aggression in those pots. I believe he had position in five or six limped pots (2 or 3 way) and raised flop bets in two of them, for whatever that's worth.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t8000 (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t237307)
Hero (t239693)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Button calls t4000, Hero checks.

Flop: (t12800) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t8000, Button calls t8000.

Turn: (t28800) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t24000, Button calls t24000.

River: (t76800) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t24000,

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Also, in both cases, if I don't make a pair or straight, do you think a big third barrel bluff, say 2/3rds pot, would have been good on most/some/any cards? This was part of the plan behind both turn bets.

LearnedfromTV · #2 09-27-2007, 12:41 AM

the converter has the pot sizes off by a little; you can figure it out from the blind amounts, or just add about 3k to each street.

In both hands I bet 1/2 pot on the flop and 3/4 pot on the turn.

Eagles · #3 09-27-2007, 12:44 AM

LFTV,
I don't really like either two barrell. As for the river... I need to think a bit.

Pudge714 · #4 09-27-2007, 03:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
LFTV,
I don't really like either two barrell. As for the river... I need to think a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

T_Mac · #5 09-27-2007, 12:44 PM

I like the bet in hand 1 more than hand 2. Hard to imagine him raising without a 7 and he'll probably even call a King, but you'll get a lot of values from his 9's or maybe even stuff like 10/8. In hand 2 that bet looks so weak its easy to imagine him bluff raising you there and putting u in a spot to make a big mistake. You really have no idea what he has but hes probably not floating twice so I'd want to get to cheap showdown. Its up to you if blocking betting or checking is the best way to do that, but if hes a strong player you're really giving him a great chance to take you to valuetown on the river or bluff you out of a huge pot.

Oh and I dont like the turn bet in hand 1. On hand 2 its better, but i cant imagine a 3 barrel working often in either hand.

burningyen · #6 09-27-2007, 05:06 PM

I would tend to bet bigger on the flops and smaller on the turns. And maybe I would tend to check the river on hand 2 more often than hand 1 since there are fewer hands that can call you that you beat and the 6 isn’t a good card for him to bluff.

If I don’t make a pair on the river, I might 3-barrel in either hand if the river puts 2-pair on the board, assuming I bet as much as you did on the turns. And my 3rd barrel is going to be bigger than your block bets.