Limit hold em on the button

[jay_shark]

So Matt Matros thinks you should play any two cards on the button . He argues that you're getting 3:1 and that you have position so you should call at the very least .

I refuse to believe that you can play a hand like 9-2 otb for a profit unless you're playing against a maniac . The hands that I would typically discard are :
6 high
7 high except 7-6
9-5 and below .
10-4 and below
j-3,j-2
q-2

So in total i'm folding 4*4*18/52c2=21.7% of my hands . I'm curious to know what type of hands other players typically fold with on the button . In fact , there are many who argue that it's correct to play any two so if you think folding is wrong then please explain away .

[jay_shark]

Lets neglect the times when you think you may play any two cards for a profit . Certainly this is true and you may pick the right spot to bluff with 3-2 s and be successful with it . On the other hand , I believe that if you were to repeatedly play those hands then you would show a negative profit .

I'm not a fan of high-low hands like q-2 or 9-2 so I generally think it's best left in the muck .

[vmacosta]

jshark,
you've got the right idea but you're prob a smidge too tight imo (i never fold 65o or anything suited, for instance)

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
jshark,
you've got the right idea but you're prob a smidge too tight imo (i never fold 65o or anything suited, for instance)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I agree. I tend to fold a couple more of those high-low off suit cards though.

Edit to say that raising any two OTB is a much better strategy at high stakes. First there's no rake basically. Plus there's something to be gained from giving your opponent no info from the BT. Personally I think there are better ways to do that but w/e

[jay_shark]

So leader , you think that some hands should be limped ?

I do like the idea of raising otb if you decide to play since you give away no information . I find that limping with speculative hands is a sign of weakness and you'll have to mix it up with some limp re-raising to counter that .

Here are reasons why I dislike limping :

1) When you limp , you're getting a discount but your opponent is getting a free look at the flop .

2)Limping with weaker hands gives your opponent more information and your hand becomes better defined . This isn't a good idea . Imo , if a hand is playable , then you should raise because you have position and fold equity on your side .

3) Limping gives you 0 fold equity .

I'd like to hear some thoughts on why some people think limping is occasionally correct .

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
So leader , you think that some hands should be limped ?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. I do limp some bad suited cards OTB against people that don't raise enough. If I try limping a few times and all they do is raise, I start lrr'ing but quit str8 limping for the mast part. If it appears after a few limps that he's raising somewhere close to the right amount, I stop limping. I also don't limp against people that fold too much either pf or postflop or those that will check pf and c/r the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I do like the idea of raising otb if you decide to play since you give away no information . I find that limping with speculative hands is a sign of weakness and you'll have to mix it up with some limp re-raising to counter that .

Here are reasons why I dislike limping :

1) When you limp , you're getting a discount but your opponent is getting a free look at the flop .

2)Limping with weaker hands gives your opponent more information and your hand becomes better defined . This isn't a good idea . Imo , if a hand is playable , then you should raise because you have position and fold equity on your side .

3) Limping gives you 0 fold equity .

I'd like to hear some thoughts on why some people think limping is occasionally correct .

[/ QUOTE ]

I pretty much agree with all of that. Certain players aren't smart enough to understand what your doing though. When this is the case limping has the advantage of winning you many of the same pots while you lose less when he hits. If he's a particularly fishy player, he'll also be making a huge mistake by calling in such a small pot when you make a pair. Even in the most generous cases though i wouldn't limp much. Only suited hands with no showdown value.