400 NL- Ugh, fold?

[AdamBragar]

This hand was wacky, especially cause I checked the flop (probably not a standard line for me here). No real reads on the opponent in this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($394)
SB ($420.50)
BB ($281.50)
UTG ($232.70)
UTG+1 ($541.65)
MP1 ($387.10)
MP2 ($234)
MP3 ($412.75)
Hero ($663.30)

Preflop: Hero is with KJcc (converter messed up) . UTG posts a blind of $4.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($24) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($24) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $34</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $80</font>, SB calls $46.

River: ($184) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $322.5</font>, CO ???



First, what does everyone think of the flop check, especially if I plan to raise almost any turn? Second, fold the river?

[Berge20]

What is the logic behind not C-betting?
-Would you not C-bet an overpair here?

Turn raise seems smaller than I'd prefer, although that may be tainted by the river action.

What can he be bet-calling on the turn that he CR on the river? The only hands (other than air) I see are smaller flushes.

Hard without any sort of read, but thems the breaks.

[homeboy604]

looks to me like slow played his set on the flop, bet small on the turn to see if you had the flush, just called to your RR, and cr the river when he made the pot.
pretty simple.
he might have a smaller flush here, but i doubt it.
fold.

[D.L.M.]

i check flops in positn with a good over card flush draw frequently. alot of good things can happen.
villian could be slowplaying and give action when youhit.
villian could try to steal on the turn when you hit
you can play some poker if you hit a j or k.
you can raise alomost any of his bets with any turn card because if you didnt hit you still have the river to hit a club and push hi ai very disguised.

as for this hand- on the river given that he seems to know youd bet, he clearly knows you have the flush. he would reraise any flush on the turn i think. so id say call if you think hes a moron. or fold if hes a decent player or better even though your still getting good odds on a call.

[viper930]

checking through the flop and pretty much minraising the turn is disgusting. I find it hard to believe that you'd make the same sized raise or even raise at all with air on this turn.

Bet this flop pretty much always, esp without reads.

Berge, the average player can slowplay a flopped/turned set like this and go for a c/r on the riv since OP raised the turn.

As played I think you're very very very very rarely good to the river c/r. fold.

[D.L.M.]

i think another reason not to cbet is that we dont want to win the pot right now and we dont want a c/r to occur. if he has a hand hell call with oop that he wont raise we are lucky. if he folds we get to lock up a small pot that could have been big. so out options to cbet this include
cbet and-
win the pot right now (thats ok)
get c/red and have to hope for a 4/1 what doesnt pair the board

[nation]

flop is auto cbet imo. build up the pot so when you hit it, your hand is disguised.

as for the river...wow what a terrible turn of events. you are basically never good here in full ring. i think its a fold, but its really close and stats would help me a lot here.

[steel108]

I think the flop is a bet almost always here. The river just sucks balls. I would probably fold this, but I wouldn't respect myself in the morning though.

[andyEB]

I don't know if I'm good enough to give good advice about this limit, but I'll try...

I don't know how those games play, so I don't know about the flop check (esp readless).

River - I don't think we beat anything but a bluff here. He would have to be certain your bluffing to bluff here with the pot this big already. His pf call would usually indicate PP or AK I would think. It really looks like he has a FH or nut flush and wants you to pay off.

I have a very tough time laying this hand down without a read even though I imagine it's the correct play. He's either got you killed or he's very tricky (or just bad) -- calling's probably -EV here.

[Slap My Jack]

I hate the flop check unless you've been getting laggy and your opponent is a mincheckraising station type.

It also depends on how good the player is. Is he one to put pressure on a whiffed AK or an overpair? But then that might argue in favor of 3betting the flop if he checkraises.

I think you're beat on the river, and it's probably a fold, but you're getting 4 for 1.