How would you adjust?

[anklebreaker]

Here are the typical conditions/players at the place I play (live).

It's 1/2 NL (full table). Plays like a 2/4 or 2/5 though. Standard raise is $15-20, and there are around 3 players on most flops. Players aren't exactly calling stations, but will pretty much call any bet when they are on a decent draw.

Other information: lotta limpers and straddling. If there are 6 limpers and the button raises to $20, there'll be around 3-4 players seeing the flop. Players here are quite weak, but not stupid tourists.

I can see two ways to adjust to such a game, and was wondering what you all think.

[SplawnDarts]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are the typical conditions/players at the place I play (live).

It's 1/2 NL (full table). Plays like a 2/4 or 2/5 though. Standard raise is $15-20, and there are around 3 players on most flops. Players aren't exactly calling stations, but will pretty much call any bet when they are on a decent draw.

Other information: lotta limpers and straddling. If there are 6 limpers and the button raises to $20, there'll be around 3-4 players seeing the flop. Players here are quite weak, but not stupid tourists.

I can see two ways to adjust to such a game, and was wondering what you all think.

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Based on your description, there's too much money going in preflop for any sort of implied odds strategy. Such games are very easy to beat.

I would wait for a big pair or AKs in the hole, limp into the field if in early position, and then push when the $20 multiway action gets back to me.

If they start folding to your limps, raising to a more reasonable value, folding to raises, or just not raising when you're in the pot, you can adopt a more rounded strategy. But until they adapt, just stick with that.

[infinity235]

Pick up a monster and destroy them. Push on early streets.

[anklebreaker]

Yea, tightening up and overbetting is the approach I've been using.

Other thoughts are appreciated.

[pzhon]

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Yea, tightening up and overbetting is the approach I've been using.

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Why would you tighten up? When people play badly, they are converting marginal hands into winners, not losers.

Overbetting for value is fine. Let people pay too much to draw. Don't overbet to protect your hand. Don't bet so much that they finally correctly fold.

[SplawnDarts]

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Why would you tighten up? When people play badly, they are converting marginal hands into winners, not losers.

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This is not always true. if the mistake being made is overbetting on early streets, they're ELIMINATING your implied odds, meaning that marginal hands LOSE value, but big made hands increase in value.

[anklebreaker]

pzhon,

Can you explain "Don't overbet to protect your hand."

Yea, I do occasionally try to see the flop cheaply in late position, but besides that, I come in for a raise with good hands.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Why would you tighten up? When people play badly, they are converting marginal hands into winners, not losers.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not always true. if the mistake being made is overbetting on early streets, they're ELIMINATING your implied odds, meaning that marginal hands LOSE value, but big made hands increase in value.

[/ QUOTE ]
First, the OP said there was a lot of limping, straddling, etc. That doesn't mean there was a lot of raising. In fact, it suggests there was less.

Second, it is not marginal hands in particular which lose value when there are large raises and overbets on early streets, it is speculative hands which lose value. A marginal speculative hand may lose value, but not because it is marginal.

[pzhon]

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Can you explain "Don't overbet to protect your hand."

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Bets may have several components. A bet may be for value, when you expect worse made hands to call. A bet may be for protection, when you are forcing out weak draws, or at least are charging them. A bet may be a bluff, when you hope better made hands will fold.

If people are willing to call large raises with garbage, that is more profitable for you than if they fold to a push and you get 100% of a tiny pot. In some situations where you might ordinarily protect your hand and get weak draws to fold, you might need to bet a huge amount to get these players out. Don't. You are better off if you bet an amount these players will call.