NL50:88.c/r semibluff on flop,turn gets checked.I push river scare car

[Specialwon]

Actually I think it was a bold move on the river, but these moves are like telling a big lie to the police, screw up one detail and it has the wrong smell, espec. against a good opponent.

[RapidEvolution]

I think this is pretty ballsy, but the flop 3bet is where you either have to let it go, or shove (I'll get to the shove in a minute). His raise doesn't leave much behind and takes a lot of leverage away from a river push. His flop bet also commits him to the pot, and if he's competent, your line's not going to make sense.

If you had a set, I think you would've either got it in on the flop or on the blank turn card. If you had a flush or combo draw, you'd be getting it in on the flop, IMO.

I think if you're gonna move at this pot, it's got to be on the flop. The preflop raise followed by the 3bet after your checkraise is likely an overpair and I think that if a competent player is folding an overpair at all, the best chance is on the flop.

BTW, the limp preflop is fine, IMO. Especially if the table's been raising a lot. It'd suck to get 4 bet off of a perfectly playable hand. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[AlexB182]

I agree, the flop would've been a good spot for the shove, too, maybe the better one.

[toymach776]

Well Alex nothing personal but I have to disagree with you again here [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, I think that going with reads and with what you think to know of your opponent is by far a better approach then simply saying: at this or that level, people are calling you down anyway and always in that kind of situation. IMO, there has recently been quite a lot of oversimplification around here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course individual reads are important. However, I assume that you are a multitabler? When we mutitable we are doing so in order to take advantage of the winrate that we can achieve at each table. When we say something like "in this spot we are getting called much more often than we fold an overpair at this limit" we are using mathematics to help us make a long run EV maximizing decision. In a way we are making a simplification, however I disagree that this is detrimental. Its is similar to the way in which we put villians on ranges rather than single hands. Its impossible to put a single villain on a single hand in every single situation. In this way, making simplifications is actually better than focusing in on one spot. does this make sense at all?

[Chargers In 07]

Flop is gross and on the river I think he has what you're repping. I think he was trying to get arrrr in with AK/AQss, what other hand checks the turn? You're never showing up w/J8 or KJ here. If I was in his shoes this is almost exactly how I'd play any big draw here.

[AlexB182]

This does make sense, toymach, and you're right, we are putting on a range hand here: and after all information we got on the river, I think his hand is not good enough to call a shove on the river. It's pretty much as simple as that. Of course you're right, I'm multitabling, though only 10 - 12 tables cause I think that is the number where, at least now and then, you can make reliable reads on your opponents.
@chargers: I agree with you, flop is pretty gross! When you want to flame one part of this hand, I def agree that calling his 3bet on the flop is pretty bad! Rapid mentionend pushing this flop and I think this is a pretty good idea here. I'll add how this hand went down here, just for information and to get this thread finished. Thanks a lot for all your comments and your help!

FullTiltPoker Game #4194518844: Table Jessica Marie - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:31:12 ET - 2007/11/16
Seat 1: lobstrman29 ($22.45)
Seat 2: AlexB182 ($59.40)
Seat 3: samlucky1 ($72.35), is sitting out
Seat 4: Balato ($52.50)
Seat 5: Eldr1tch ($33.75)
Seat 6: jimjack111 ($9.65)
Seat 7: Donkeyburger1 ($63.50)
Seat 8: profplum701 ($50.75)
Seat 9: Gil-galad ($10.25)
jimjack111 posts the small blind of $0.25
Donkeyburger1 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AlexB182 [8c 8s]
profplum701 folds
Gil-galad folds
lobstrman29 folds
AlexB182 calls $0.50
Balato raises to $2.25
Eldr1tch folds
jimjack111 folds
Donkeyburger1 folds
AlexB182 calls $1.75
*** FLOP *** [Ts 6s 9h]
AlexB182 checks
Balato bets $2
AlexB182 raises to $7
Balato raises to $15
AlexB182 calls $8
*** TURN *** [Ts 6s 9h] [Qd]
AlexB182 checks
Balato checks
*** RIVER *** [Ts 6s 9h Qd] [3s]
AlexB182 bets $42.15, and is all in
Balato has 15 seconds left to act
Balato: shud learn to value bet
Balato folds
Uncalled bet of $42.15 returned to AlexB182
AlexB182 mucks
AlexB182 wins the pot ($33.50)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $35.25 | Rake $1.75
Board: [Ts 6s 9h Qd 3s]
Seat 1: lobstrman29 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: AlexB182 collected ($33.50), mucked
Seat 3: samlucky1 is sitting out
Seat 4: Balato folded on the River
Seat 5: Eldr1tch (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: jimjack111 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Donkeyburger1 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: profplum701 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Gil-galad didn't bet (folded

Edit: just arrived at home and I'm pretty drunk, just in case I wrote something stupid...

[Chargers In 07]

To bad you (probably) don't have your option to show on. Judging from his "you shud learn to vb" you'd tilt the hell out of him by showing. nh

[AlexB182]

Thank you chargers. I know that this could have ended in a different way but I really was pretty sure he could not call this shove. And you're right, showing him this hand could've definetly tilted him big style!