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  #1  
Old 11-12-2007, 06:02 PM
esaresa esaresa is offline
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Default Middle Set

$35 buy-in, 3 table (plus alternates) NLHE tournament at a local casino. Full table and I'm down to 1500 of a starting 3000 stack (I had already donked off half my stack - but that's another story). Blinds $50-$100 and I make it $400 to go from UTG w/ Pocket 8's. Cutoff flat calls and the blinds fold. Flop comes 8-K-3 unsuited. I shoved. Was I too impatient, and incorrect in feeling there wasn't much point in making a continuation bet and leaving myself $900 in chips if I got re-reaised all in? Thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2007, 06:14 PM
SDone SDone is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

Don't you want to get reraised all in?
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  #3  
Old 11-12-2007, 06:18 PM
RustyBrooks RustyBrooks is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

This probably would go over better in "Tournament Poker: Small Stakes MTT" or "Tournament Poker: MTT Community" or something.

In my opinion this is too hasty. You'd probably prefer to get it all in and get called. If you shove your opponent can make a correct fold. I like a check-raise all in, or a weak-continuation bet (1/2 pot or something) followed by an all in. If you check the flop and your opponent checks behind then you'll probably need to bet the turn.

Going all in on the flop would not be awful if your stack was shorter, because a lot of people do delayed all-ins on the flop.

Oh, and what was your opponent's stack size? If he has a lot more chips than you then he'll call more liberally. If he has a lot less chips than you, probably the same (although he'd probably have gone all in preflop in that case). If he has about the same to about double your stack, you're going to have to either coax him into the pot, or get him to commit chips by playing weakly.

Just my opinion. I don't play a lot of holdem tournaments these days.
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  #4  
Old 11-12-2007, 06:35 PM
esaresa esaresa is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

Thanks for the suggestion on the proper area to post this type of question...will do next time.

The villan in this case just called my preflop bet with KK. I got the action I was looking for but it wasn't the results I wanted. I like the check-raise and/or continuation bet you suggest but the outcome in this case would have been the same. To answer your question he had me outchipped about 3-1.
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2007, 06:53 PM
RustyBrooks RustyBrooks is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

Well, c'est la vie. There is no way you can get away from this I think. My first thought was, you got lucky, most people won't stack off with less than top pair or an overpair here, but then I noticed the K on the flop. Such is life.
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  #6  
Old 11-12-2007, 07:14 PM
Freer0llin Freer0llin is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

You can't fold, even thinking about this decision in your situation is bad tournament poker.
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  #7  
Old 11-12-2007, 07:21 PM
RustyBrooks RustyBrooks is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

Yes of course, you never fold.

But if you push the flop, you get called by all the hands that crush you, and fewer of the hands that you crush. TPGK and over pair are calling you all day long, as is any hand that beats yours, so push or check raise all in or whatever, the money is going all in most likely.

But worse hands might fold to an all in... 2nd pair or other mid pairs, weak draws, whiffed high cards, pure bluff hands, etc. Pushing the flop gives them the opportunity to play optimally, instead of giving them a chance to make a mistake by calling a smaller bet, or inducing them to bluff.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2007, 02:32 AM
veggies veggies is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

I don't think that betting 4x the bb with your stack from utg is the right play.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2007, 05:02 AM
ComeOnNine ComeOnNine is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

i would play that hand slower personally. if you're that shortstacked you can't worry about protecting your hand, you just have to squeeze out as much value as you can. the result...nothing you can do really.
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2007, 06:09 AM
Mecastyles Mecastyles is offline
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Default Re: Middle Set

fold preflop, utg p8, not a good play to get 1/3 of your stack in. middle position or late it would be good.
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