love in 2 parts - Page 2

AcidKnight · #11 08-17-2007, 02:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why do you need to bet the turn? on the contrary, I think betting the turn overreps your hand and will get him to play perfectly against you, whereas checking can look like you have a draw, or get value from a worse hand either on the turn or on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
It seems that a bet/fold is better becuase it feels like we don't have a good handle on the villain's range in this hand. I'd rather not let him have control of the hand on the turn while we're still really guessing about what he's got.

greg nice · #12 08-17-2007, 02:43 PM

i think i much prefer a passive line after i lead the flop. you might miss out on value but if villian is good youre gonna have a tough time

Chaoslord · #13 08-17-2007, 02:50 PM

this looks like 7cxc and i would have either bet stronger on the turn (close to pot) or check/called.
flop donk is fine, check-raising turns ur hand into air basically. without any reads on bb i probably call here, your line doesnt look strong at all, the chances of him having a full house are like 0% and if he has something like 86 theres no need for him to shove.

aislephive · #14 08-17-2007, 03:02 PM

Flop lead is fine I think, all our other options are pretty meh. Check raising is too strong and overrepps our hands and check/calling keeps us in the dark and there are a lot of [censored] turns for us.

I'd just lead the turn again now and fold pretty quickly to the shove I think.

I think saying check the turn is results oriented. A lot of villains range is stuff like pair + straight draw or something that will call a turn bet but probably checks behind when checked to. If you check call the turn villain is probably never betting worse on the river or somehow bluffing unless he turns like 78 into a bluff or something. I'm not sure if you can get get 3 streets of value here but I still like betting the turn because there are plenty of hands that will call a turn bet but fold to a river bet if the turn went check check (mostly marginal hands with some kind of draw).

teddyFBI · #15 08-17-2007, 03:05 PM

i like your line on flop/turn (i fold to shove btw).
not crazy about PF...i like to outthink myself and get cute too...never works.

The satisfaction I get from the 3% of times I actually do trap someone with the smooth call from SB to induce squeeze is dwarfed by the EV i give up when it inevitably tanks and I'm left to tangle in a 3-way pot OOP

bigballz · #16 08-17-2007, 03:09 PM

born2dog likes to fold to reraises? since when

kamelion44 · #17 08-17-2007, 03:12 PM

I'm not sure I agree with it being a bad turn bet. I don't play on Pokerstars, and I don't know how either of these guys play, but I don't see why getting three streets of value is that much of a stretch against standard opponents, even if by getting value on the river I mean check/calling. The ranges are super wide here, I'm not sure I'd get spooked that easily.

I feel like checking the turn makes the hand more awkward, making us much more likely to want to go along for the ride to valuetown, and also letting him check in too many spots where he would have called, either when he checks behind on the turn and folds to river, or bets turn and checks behind river.

RiverFenix · #18 08-17-2007, 03:22 PM

May not be appropriate but generally donks like this are used to b/3b ai w/ draws/sets right? Except for in this case you have the one weird hand that no one expects you to have. Given that hes squeeze happy youre probably not looking at 88+ and by donking twice you look more towards the stronger side that draw side and he still comes overtop. I think a b/f here is fine.

fslexcduck · #19 08-17-2007, 03:47 PM

what does everyone think of the flop lead?

i'm thinking maybe check/call might be better to see what develops...

because when anyone calls this flop lead i'm not really too thrilled. do you think we would be happy if BB folded and btn called the flop lead? would this change the future lines we took (for instance, make it more of a c/rai on the turn or something)?

TheWorstPlayer · #20 08-17-2007, 03:58 PM

Your hand is not that different from bottom set. Or top two. I like a lead with all of those hands. You can have a draw or a low overpair so leading does not make your hand transparent. And you dont want this flop to get checked through, but many hands that you will get value from will check it for pot control. So I like the lead. But when called, no matter by whom, I really think you need to check the turn for pot control and deception.