Reverse implied pot odds

[erocplayer]

they just measure how much you could potentially LOSE when you "make" your hand and have it trumped, correct?

-eroc

[uDevil]

Yes. In limit HE, if you have a flush draw against your opponent's overpair, you may expect to win an extra bet if you make your flush. You have positive implied odds. But your positive implied odds are your opponent's negative (reverse) implied odds. He may have the best hand now, but the extra bet that you win if you hit will be coming from him.

[Jamsym]

Here's a good explanation from a friend of mine who posts on here called 'currylover'

'Reverse implied odds' is a term used to describe a specific type of situation in which:
a) You may be ahead or may be behind (and are not sure which)
b) You will have to put more chips into the pot if you are behind, but if you are ahead your opponent is unlikely to put more money in himself.

e.g. You have A3o and call a raise in the BB. Flop comes AT6. You check and opponent bets. This can often be a reverse implied odds situation. You can choose right now that you are going to call your opponent down on every street here, and sometimes you will be ahead. Unfortunately, your opponent is very unlikely to put more money in the pot if he does not have a better hand than you, so you stand to win only what is in the pot right now. But if your opponent does have a better hand (e.g. AK/AQ) he will probably charge you a further bet on every street. In other words, by calling on the flop with the plan of check calling every street, you are allowing a situation where (usually) no more money will go in the pot when you are ahead, but you will have to contribute several more bets when you are behind.

Another example: You have AA and your opponent has 22. You open raise UTG for a relatively large amount. Your opponent calls and you are both pretty deep in chips. In this situation your opponent has implied odds and you suffer from reverse implied odds. This is because (usually) the only time any more money will go into the pot is when you have been outdrawn (i.e. your opponent has hit trips). On pretty much any flop without a 2 on it, you will bet and opponent will fold. You will have won only what is in the pot. However, if a deuce flops you stand to lose not just what is in the pot at the moment, but probably a great deal more money - and perhaps your whole stack depending how deep you are and/or how good you are. That's why you can say you have reverse implied odds here - because more money is only going to go into the pot when you are behind on the flop.

So, (and this is paraphrasing TOP) you talk about reverse implied odds when:

1) You are not sure if you're ahead or behind
2) You are unlikely to improve if you are behind
3) You are (probably) committed to calling future bets to the end of the hand
4) Your opponent can back off at any time (i.e. he is probably going to bet when ahead, but check or fold when behind)

As an aside, bear in mind that you get better implied odds from weaker players. In the above example where 22 has implied odds against AA, the 22 would much prefer to be up against a weak player than a strong player. A very good player might be able to get away from his AA when the 22 has flopped trips and only lose a part of his stack. Maybe he picks up a tell on the player with 22; maybe he is good enough to read the betting patterns and decide that his AA must have been outdrawn; maybe he will just have the necessary skill to exercise pot size control post flop and keep his losses to a minimum. The point is that a good player may not automatically stack off to you when you have hit your trips. He will certainly lose some money on, say, a 26J flop to the trip deuces, but might have the skills to save some of his stack. A mediocre player, however, will probably stack off with his AA on a 26J flop. In other words, you have better implied odds against weaker players because the strong players are less likely to pay you off fully the times when you get lucky and outdraw them.

[DiamondDog]

Thanks for the explanations. Useful.

I'm sure this is a big weakness in my game.

[choccypie]

Really good explanation, thanks [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]