something im doing almost always now...

[mike l.]

i find that when im out of position heads up in a pot and i raised p/f and got called im betting the flop dark every time and not looking at the board until after ive watched my opponent react and act.

and when im oop heads up in a pot and i called a raise (or reraise) im checking dark every time and not looking at the board until after my opponent reacts and acts. (if they dont bet dark, which most dont).

one note: my opponents are generally anywhere from mediocre to really really bad, with the very occasional great 2+2er thrown in.

am i playing perfectly?

[vmacosta]

Mike,
I'm a bit surprised by this post. I always thought you were one of the rare players who don't always play by the flow and do stuff like donking flops hu. There was a decent thread about this not too long ago where ggbman made a decent post and there is a link in that thread to an interview with JV on this. Even Sklansky has written some stuff on this (in his now extinct forum I believe). Perhaps someone can provide us with links...

I think the general consensus is that it can't possibly be perfect because you are neglecting like 50% of possible lines. However in practice it's not far from correct due to the limited ability to control the size of the pot and the tiny betot ratio in lhe. (I say this because it appears that this is not optimal in NL where I think most experts agree that a "continuation bet" even on the flop is not mandatory and frequently overused)

[mike l.]

yeah nl is a completely different beast. as are pots with more than 1 opponent.

[Howard Beale]

Are you able to watch your opponent w/o them noticing? Isn't anybody picking up on what you're doing? I'd like to know how it's been working out so far.

[DeathDonkey]

You used to be the donk master, now you've joined the dark side. I think you are playing fine but I also think the old way was fine too. I've actually stopped dark betting - I mean I still do it mentally, but I wait for the flop to come down now, I was getting played back at too much when dark betting and it was tough OOP, I feel I get more respect when I pretend to care what the flop is.

-DeathDonkey

[mike l.]

"I was getting played back at too much when dark betting and it was tough OOP,"

if i start getting played back at i will stop but so far it's working so well i feel like ive reinvented the wheel.

one thing though: it seems to be catching. once you start doing it, other players in the game start doing it too.

[HOWMANY]

I'm with you on the betting dark which I will sometimes decide to do some days depending how I feel, but I'm not really checking dark often. Against lots of people I think there are flops that need to be donked. Against other people I feel that c/r the flop will almost always be better than donking and against those people I might consider checking dark.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
and when im oop heads up in a pot and i called a raise (or reraise) im checking dark every time and not looking at the board until after my opponent reacts and acts. (if they dont bet dark, which most dont).

[/ QUOTE ]

so am i the only guy that bets dark against pfr's?

[MitchL]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and when im oop heads up in a pot and i called a raise (or reraise) im checking dark every time and not looking at the board until after my opponent reacts and acts. (if they dont bet dark, which most dont).

[/ QUOTE ]

so am i the only guy that bets dark against pfr's?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive seen it before, but pretty sure I am the only one that dark calls the pfr dark bet.

[cgrohman]

I agree with this. But it usually occurs multi-way.