an expert and i disagreed on this one... - Page 3

mike l. · #21 06-24-2007, 07:14 PM

roman checked and the guy checked and the guy showed KJ and was angry it wasnt good against a boat. i told roman he messed up because the guy would call with that in the state he was in, and roman was shocked that the guy would call. roman said "once that A comes there's nothing he can call me with". i felt good about myself and my poker thinking. sorry this thread wasnt more interesting.

mike l. · #22 06-24-2007, 07:17 PM

i figured there was too great a chance of being badly dominated, but i can see that a call might have been a little better than a fold.

HOWMANY · #23 06-24-2007, 07:18 PM

So K high was good to call down with before the A came but once it comes the A somehow ruins his hand?

I hope you don't want me to go to Commerce still because I just got home from playing and should probably sleep but am watching Dean's new Cardrunners vid.

mike l. · #24 06-24-2007, 07:19 PM

sorry i forgot to call you no were not going after all. might see you at oceans later.

surfdoc · #25 06-24-2007, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
sorry i forgot to call you no were not going after all. might see you at oceans later.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like I got coverage for the kids, so I am in for oceans but if it sucks I may be able to be talked into a little drive.

Surf · #26 06-24-2007, 07:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sorry i forgot to call you no were not going after all. might see you at oceans later.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like I got coverage for the kids, so I am in for oceans but if it sucks I may be able to be talked into a little drive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm so jealous - i'm already trying to work out when i can make it back to the west coast for more live poker action!

Surf

elindauer · #27 06-25-2007, 01:01 AM

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i raise KTo on the button

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I know this isn't the part you're asking about, but I'd like to mention that I think you'll do much better by just limping in here. Your superior hand reading skills count for a lot more when you keep the pot small. Pumping up the pot with a weak hand like this doesn't gain you much equity immediately, while making their postflop looseness more correct.

I know you are good enough to do this and win, but I think you will win even more if you limp in.

River looks like a bet against a passive fish. Too many pairs check behind.

-eric

mike l. · #28 06-25-2007, 01:17 AM

this would require a different thread to fully discuss but i think youre in the minority in your thinking on this. the super standard play by a good player now is to isolate a loose passive limper or two here with this hand, see if the blinds will fold, and use aggression to force them into errors and control the hand postflop. you say it's a "weak hand" but it's actually a strong hand compared to many recreational live mid limit player's limping ranges.

elindauer · #29 06-25-2007, 01:44 AM

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this would require a different thread to fully discuss but i think youre in the minority in your thinking on this.

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I have no doubt of that! I consider this to be a significant edge for me. Of course, we play different games.

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...use aggression to force them into errors and control the hand postflop...

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that you are getting fish to fold too much? That seems hard to believe. If so, good for you, but I suspect it's a lot easier to play in a way that allows them to call too much!

[ QUOTE ]
you say it's a "weak hand" but it's actually a strong hand compared to many recreational live mid limit player's limping ranges.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have to take your word there, but I'm pretty skeptical. The mistakes they make by calling incorrectly are much bigger if you don't raise before the flop. I'd be surprised if KT has that kind of advantage against their range. You know better than I do though.

Out of curiosity, what range of hands do you isolate with here? Is KT at the bottom?

good luck.
eric

emerson · #30 06-25-2007, 02:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i raise KTo on the button

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this isn't the part you're asking about, but I'd like to mention that I think you'll do much better by just limping in here. Your superior hand reading skills count for a lot more when you keep the pot small. Pumping up the pot with a weak hand like this doesn't gain you much equity immediately, while making their postflop looseness more correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with you as a matter of general principle, I might disagree here. The prospect of driving out the blinds and having the dead money overlay is more profitable than the post flop errors of one player.

Against stubborn blinds, where there is little chance of isolation, I also don't like the raise. It is possible that this is the case here. If it is, I agree with you.

What gives weight to not raising is the fact that an expert player is in one of the blinds and he is fully aware that Mike is trying to isolate a weak player. That is not allowed when we have any kind of half decent hand as a blind.