flop c/r

[mike l.]

40 live good game. 5 handed. utg fold, loose passive fish limps, button folds, i call w/ 7d5c in the sb, bb, a very good player, checks. ive not been out of line. i have been showing down and winning many hands, up about 3 racks. bb and fish are fairly new to the game but have both played with me a little bit before.

the flop is Q43 all diamonds. i check, bb bets, fish calls, i checkraise. te gusta?

[HOWMANY]

What kind of hand is fish going to have here? Are your pairs going to be good against him often here?

What kind of "good" is bb? Live "good" or good "good". As long as he's betting a wide range here and folding a lot of them too then it's okay.

This really looks like one of those hands where you had to be there because it depends on a lot of stuff, but it is stuff that is sort of easy to determine when you're actually there. Just reading it it looks kind of spewy but not terrible, actually being there it could range anywhere from "this is fine" to "lol awful".

I personally c/f here usually and sometimes bet. I don't like semibluffing marginal draws multiway live because a lot of it depends on one player's ability to fold and I don't have much success getting people to fold against me.

[jkamowitz]

off topic but what's the difference between "live" good and 'good' good?

[DeathDonkey]

I think check/folding is crazy with a gutshot + small flush draw.

jkamowitz: live good means mediocre, good good means people on these forums, expert good means the best of said forum people.

-DeathDonkey

[HOWMANY]

I just mean there are lots of live players that play decent in that they're tight and not retarded postflop, but they don't really have any hand reading abilities, they probably peel too lightly, a lot of them tilt pretty easily. They are people that are likely decent winners live but would probably get completely thrashed in like a 3/6 online game.

[PokerBob]

if i'm BB, i don't think you have [censored].

[drbk2]

Don't really like it. I like leading the flop better. I think by taking the line you did, the good player is going to know you either have a flush or the hand that you have. That would create enough doubt for him to call you down very light here. Betting out would make him think you don't want to give free cards, and would fold out a lot of hands you want to go away.

[mike l.]

i check fold here a lot, but being short i felt compelled to call, so i figured why the heck not c/r, something i used to do regularly years ago, but have since ceased as i started to value things like good cards and good position.

in this case i felt like bb would have to fear my c/r with anything less than a Q or the nut flush draw. fish was seeing 75% or more of turns for one bet once he had seen the flop, maybe more like 90%. so he could easily have something like Kx6d or whatever.

[mike l.]

"They are people that are likely decent winners live"

i agreed with you until this point. these players youre describing are the majority of our opponents and they are are between -.5 bb/hr and +.5 bb/hr. a lot of them play a lot and their primary purpose in life is to feed the rake. they beat up on the horrible players, but not as bad as we do and they lose money to us, but not a ton. they aimlessly pass chips around with each other. we should be nice to them because they keep the games full affording us the chance to play really tight, and can be nice to make mindless chatter with. i [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] mediocre players.

[mike l.]

why either a flush or air? i could have the Ad or a Q as well. i might also have something like decent d and a 4 or 3 (at least in his mind, he probably doesnt know i would never play something like J4o for two chips). i would play a set or two pair this way as well btw.