in over my head

[DeeJ]

I think this depends on the TAG. AT/A9 is probably the borderline for me, but if he's more agressive I will stoop to lower aces headsup. KQx is a pretty lousy flop and I'd probably fold A7 here against most TAGs and move on.

If you didn't want to give up then you could check-raise the flop which could reduce the price of getting to showdown.

[AffleckKGB]

[ QUOTE ]
unless you just happen to have a lot of money and dont care if you lose it you shouldnt be playing 100-200 without having already developed a strong plan with significant reasoning behind it as to how and why you would play a hand like this. this sort of situation is a very common one. this is the sort of question that you should figure out in your first 6 months or so of playing low and mid limit hold em. also if youre playing 1-2 you should ideally have read a bunch of books that address this sort of issue (the 2+2 ones are the best) and will show you the sort of thinking you need to be doing in order to beat different sorts of games and opponents. so in short yes your post sounds naive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, this is silly. Everybody wonders what to do when they're in this situation, and few 1/2 players have "developed a strong plan with significant reasoning behind it as to how and why you would play a hand like this".

Does mikel even play 1/2 anymore or has he given it up since his JJ raise/fold preflop?

[mike l.]

"Does mikel even play 1/2 anymore or has he given it up since his JJ raise/fold preflop?"

so because id mastered the game so thoroughly i gave it up?? now youre the one being silly...

[Ryno]

"Obviously, this is silly. Everybody wonders what to do when they're in this situation, and few 1/2 players have "developed a strong plan with significant reasoning behind it as to how and why you would play a hand like this". "

I've probably spent more time scenario-playing/pokerstoving Ax HU OOP than any other situation in limit holdem.

The answer depends on the aggressive/passive nature of the opponent, his range, etc., so you are always thinking about the right play in the moment, but that isn't the same thing as not having a plan.

[tongni]

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody wonders what to do when they're in this situation, and few 1/2 players have "developed a strong plan with significant reasoning behind it as to how and why you would play a hand like this".


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I have to agree here. I just pick one of the three actions with semi randomness in this spot. If I had to think about my frequency, I'm not sure I could come up with it offhand.


[ QUOTE ]
also if youre playing 1-2 you should ideally have read a bunch of books that address this sort of issue (the 2+2 ones are the best)

[/ QUOTE ]

What do the 2+2 books say about this spot? I'm genuinely curious, as I haven't read any of them in a while.

[NMcNasty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everybody wonders what to do when they're in this situation, and few 1/2 players have "developed a strong plan with significant reasoning behind it as to how and why you would play a hand like this".


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I have to agree here. I just pick one of the three actions with semi randomness in this spot. If I had to think about my frequency, I'm not sure I could come up with it offhand.


[ QUOTE ]
also if youre playing 1-2 you should ideally have read a bunch of books that address this sort of issue (the 2+2 ones are the best)

[/ QUOTE ]

What do the 2+2 books say about this spot? I'm genuinely curious, as I haven't read any of them in a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't remember anything about it in Stox's book.

As a side note I specifically remember Harman advocating 3betting A7o pre in this spot in her chapter of super system2.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dont read the whole thread, i have no idea how it is so long bc this hand is incredibly simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

HM,

Can you explain why you would never c/r this flop ever? Seems like some (perhaps small) % would be part of a balanced strategy. A c/r, with a possible turn follow thru, will fold a bunch of low SCs and PPs, no? Or do you think those make up too small a portion of his range?

[/ QUOTE ]

i dunno, seems intuitively bad to me. no real reason other than that since i basically havent put any effort into analyzing any equity situations in probably a year or so.

[ALL1N]

Assuming x<7 and a rb flop, I would c/c. Definitely don't 3-bet preflop FWIW.

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
assuming button opens 50% of hands and the x is a 2, we have to get owned postflop really bad in order to make folding the flop correct.

That said, this sounds like a spot where it actually is pretty close--the value of "x" matters. Without solving the whole damn problem, I'd guess that in my normal games (I'm a mediocre 15/30ish online player) it would be a bad fold if x<7 or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
c/r. sometimes 4bet if they 3bet, sometimes call down, sometimes call and fold later. i would sometimes call on that flop though because i would actually call with an 8 or 5 there bc people are much more willing to fire on the turn after that flop and walk into a c/r. im also much more likely to c/c a draw on that flop in order to c/r turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crazy talk!! (You're talking about 8-5-2 right?)