did i screw up on every street?

[Mr Rick]

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Okay, so we all agree I made the right play on the river? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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LOL. I give you a lot of credit for takiing all the heat so far and coming back with a joke.

PF you have to raise because you're going to have at least 4 players and almost certainly more anyway. Take a shot at buying the button and limiting the field to 3. If you fail you still have the best hand (most likely) and have forced people to pay double for their crap.

On the flop, given your pre-flop limp, BB can have anything for his bet (including any gutshot, any pair, and/or any two overcards, etc.) You must raise to get overcards and any other gutshots to fold. You may also fold out a pair. I would raise BB's bet had I raised pre-flop also. You still could have AK/AQ/AJ and BB could still be betting with a pair.

On the turn, either raise or fold. At this point if BB is betting with a K on board and there are callers I would let it go.

The river was well played.

[MitchL]

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Okay, so we all agree I made the right play on the river? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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I think the river fold is fine, but raising Billy's river bet assuming the other guy folds is really bad. He is not stupid, i.e. he would not bet a counterfeited 2 pair and then pay of your raise so there is no value in it. The place to raise was pf, on the flop or on the turn.

[jskills]

Raise PF . They're going to call one bet more easily than 2 bets no matter how bad they are. You'll end up with a smaller field vs. your jacks when you raise PF.

Raise the flop. WTF does "smells like 2 pair" mean? The blind could have anything, since he got a FREE look at the flop. Sure it could be 2 pair, but it could be a pair or a straight draw. UTG could have overcards or anything. Raise the flop.

Turn card now is an overcard to your hand. A bet and a call in front of you. And you call. I don't get it. UTG could easily have a K, no?

The river fold is obvious.

Not sure if UTG is in the hand if you raise PF and on the flop, but once the turn card hits, he's there to stay.

Isn't this a classic example of not playing a premium holding strongly enough to protect it?

[Munchkin Mayor]

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So I decide to simply call...


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This is not a fair comparison. Gary deserves better.

[SNOWBALL]

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They're going to call one bet more easily than 2 bets no matter how bad they are.

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Although I cannot prove this, I think it is wrong sometimes against some opponents. People literally think "omg so much money in the pot. now I have to call" sometimes.
Like, they'll play T7o for 3 bets, but fold x OTB vs one limper.

What hand could x be? Isn't it at least plausible that they are thinking "damn no money to win" vs the one limper? Remember, these are the same people that play nearly 100% of hands but HATE heads up and shorthanded (where you get punished less for playing everything)

[rt1]

i think you played this hand fine

[escapist]

I personally play this the same as munchkin

in these loose games were evryone is cold calling raises, isn't it CORRECT ? to limp with jj's EP ?

If I raise pre-flop, evryone will be check-calling me with all sorts of freaky draws on the flop and will be correct to do so with the pot size i helped creating.

When I limp in with jj's in the dark and some random guy bets his low pair in the dark i can raise him in a small sized pot and get other players out.

[SNOWBALL]

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I personally play this the same as munchkin

in these loose games were evryone is cold calling raises, isn't it CORRECT ? to limp with jj's EP ?

If I raise pre-flop, evryone will be check-calling me with all sorts of freaky draws on the flop and will be correct to do so with the pot size i helped creating.

When I limp in with jj's in the dark and some random guy bets his low pair in the dark i can raise him in a small sized pot and get other players out.

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so basically you want to aid everyone in playing correctly preflop and on the flop?
Why not raise, turn over your cards, and ask politely for the blind money?

[escapist]

somehow i win more and lose less money with jj's this way. Kinda like giving up some pre-flop eq for post-flop advantages. but nvm ,you are absolutely right i'd raise those jj's if I where on a normal(not-dutch-table) though the games I play in are usually so loose you can't even win with jj's without hitting trips.

[Maliant]

Great who cares moron, the point of this game is to put your money in when you are ahead and get all the equity you can. I hope it's capped 8 ways w/ my JJ against a bunch of loose tards.