Stud Hi Hand, Two issues relating to split pairs and betting strategy

[Lucere]

When you have a split pair on 3rd that you think is likely best, a player completes in front of you, and a villain behind you is showing the same upcard as your pair, is the best play there to raise the player who completed or just call?

Another issue: in this hand, I was planning to check raise on fifth, thinking the player who completed would bet. However, he didn't, and caught the second 3 on 6th, likely giving him two pair. Did I wait too long to check raise, when I could have still done it for a double bet on 5th?

7 Card Stud High ($0.25/$0.50), Ante $0.05 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 2: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (5.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (4.50 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks

6th Street - (4.50 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

River - (8.50 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___folds
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___folds

Total pot: (10.50 BB - $5.25)

[cgrohman]

Among other things, you need to fold the river. Check raising 5th is not a good idea either. Do you really want to go 2 big bets 4 ways with 1 dead pair?

I am assuming the 5 was the bring in and open completed? If you are sure you are ahead thenI see no problem raising on 3rd. As played, I probably lead out on 4th given your relative position, either than or find a fold somewhere.

[Andy B]

The river call is pretty hopeless. I don't think that fifth is the best spot for a check-raise. You've got a dead hand, and I'm not even sure I want to put any more money into this pot.

[electrical]

You ought to re-pop it on third with what is most likely the best hand. A complete bring-in usually means one of three things:

1) a pair of Fives
2) a mis-click
3) Perry Friedman is at the table and someone wants to tilt him.

In any case, if you don't get it heads-up, having the Tens in the middle gives you a nice overlay. Your hand will be best more often that not.

As played, throw it away on Six. Your two-pair outs just went South, leaving you with probably 7 outs, one card to come and no implied odds bonus.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
You ought to re-pop it on third with what is most likely the best hand. A complete bring-in usually means one of three things:

1) a pair of Fives
2) a mis-click
3) Perry Friedman is at the table and someone wants to tilt him.

In any case, if you don't get it heads-up, having the Tens in the middle gives you a nice overlay. Your hand will be best more often that not.

As played, throw it away on Six. Your two-pair outs just went South, leaving you with probably 7 outs, one card to come and no implied odds bonus.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a fan of number 3, especially after he is whining about a beat.

Raise 3rd.

[MRBAA]

Perry Friedman is still whining, eh? What a surprise. Just jam it up on third here and, yeah, fold the river.

[Lucere]

Thanks for the helpful comments everyone.

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
3) Perry Friedman is at the table and someone wants to tilt him.

[/ QUOTE ]

priceless