value shove v. hazards, HU 10/25...

[AcidKnight]

How would the villain play 78hh? Do you think he just calls the turn since he picked up outs or do you think he raises becuase he figures he's behind and that he might shake you loose from the middle pairs in your range that are currently beating him? I guess based on stack sizes and the raise amount, making that raise with 78hh would be pretty dumb here.

[Daut44]

basically the hand comes down to this

1. hes mainly repping 5x, AK, KK, AA, set, quads
2. by past action/game flow, gaucho thinks its unlikely he has those hands

therefore hes bluffing a high percentage of the time and we should continue with the hand.

gauchos assumption in part 2 may be incorrect, but i tend to trust the judgment of a good player in the match over an outside opinion in a vacuum.

[Lefort]

It makes zero sense to raise a straight draw on the turn unless he thinks gaucho is double barreling so much that the fold equity of a raise is >>> than the equity in having a draw + the option to fire river if missed... which seems unlikely to me when there are not a whole lot of draws out there so double floating and firing river should look pretty strong..

I really think Hazards has complete air or a 5/K/77, so it seems like a mere question of frequencies.. but this is NOT a value shove lol..

[Daut44]

[ QUOTE ]
It makes zero sense to raise a straight draw on the turn unless he thinks gaucho is double barreling so much that the fold equity of a raise is >>> than the equity in having a draw + the option to fire river if missed... which seems unlikely to me when there are not a whole lot of draws out there so double floating and firing river should look pretty strong..

I really think Hazards has complete air or a 5/K/77, so it seems like a mere question of frequencies.. but this is NOT a value shove lol..

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its very possible youre right.

youre def right in the sense that gaucho is never getting a better made hand to call, so in that sense its not a value shove at all.

but i think its possible he has some draws on the turn, your logic does make sense, however, an action in the moment (especially on UB) plus what you mentioned about having so much FE on the turn that raising is better than calling.

however, thats not the most important thing in this hand. the majority of the time, he has 5x, Kx, 77, etc etc or is bluffing, and gaucho thinks he can systematically eliminate most of those hands from his range.

the semibluffing hands are just a matter of him having a few more hands in his range that gaucho beats/gets to call shoves, but given the logic of how the hand was played (from an outside perspective might not exist), gaucho thinks those big hands are very unlikely.

[Triumph36]

looks familiar... anyway i don't understand why a hand like this is posted on 2p2. no way that people will ever be in favor of this shove.

[KRANTZ]

i agree w most of what vanessa says

and good last post ceczar, said it better than i could have

[Ansky]

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Uh, wow. I would have played every street differently. 10/25 against an aggro may be a bit over your head...

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who are you?

[luvetoholdem]

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why would this ever be a value shove?? seems terrible to me i would guess he has a 5, 77 or floated and hit the king most of the time.

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[dlpnyc21]

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why would this ever be a value shove?? seems terrible to me i would guess he has a 5, 77 or floated and hit the king most of the time.

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value shove seems to have confused some people. it's a "protection" shove, and the "value" comes from the fact that my hand is often good here, and I want to take down the pot.

[dlpnyc21]

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i agree w most of what vanessa says

and good last post ceczar, said it better than i could have

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vanessa and daut had some great points in this thread...i shoved, he folded, and that hand sparked a big comeback, which was very nice.