Woah! Where did that come from? - Page 3

OziBattler · #21 10-02-2007, 08:10 PM

my thoughts here are that folding is pretty weak. Its a freakin huge pot which is partly my doing.

I honestly thought this was a decision between calling and raising. Lets look at the action so far. CO is laggy and did NOT cap preflop. The likelihood of him having AA is minimal and unless he specifically has 99 or the unlikely lower set ive basically got him crushed with few outs. His flop capping is wtf and a concern though but if he is laggy this doesnt mean we are toasted. The calling station probably either has a draw or a weak made hand. If he has a draw I doubt he folds even if i raise. Im really most concerned about the donker here...wtf can he have?

I dont really like a raise here though because the prospect of pwnage is there and this is 6max where we often see idiots do idiotic things. I also think that if the 2 guys behind me have something then if I call they will define there hand at this point and tell me if Im beat and the donker will 3bet if Im pwned at which point I can release but call otherwise if he has something like 2pr or shizz like that.

Another way I thought about this hand was that if this were HU Im calling down for sure when that guy donks the turn and even though this is 4way to the turn I expect all sorts of calls from hands that I beat such as QQ-99, TopPair etc etc and as such Im getting a nice overlay abeit at the risk of being outdrawn. Im happy to take that risk and if I can get this to SD for a couple more bets in THIS BIG FREAKIN POT then Im doing it.

Landonfan · #22 10-02-2007, 08:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Another way I thought about this hand was that if this were HU Im calling down for sure when that guy donks the turn

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a horrible way to think. SB's not donking into one person, he's donking into four people after they capped the flop.

OziBattler · #23 10-02-2007, 08:50 PM

Might not be great but it isnt horrible but I agree that his donk signifies more strength than usual when donking into 4 but this is a HUGE POT and I think its worth trying to see a cheap SD here especially since we will soon know if we have to release our hand. Dont get me wrong...Im not in love with my hand here but folding here for 1 bet is weaksauce IMHO (just as blindly going putting in 3+ bets from this point on to see SD is not good either)

perhaps this donker is aware enough to know that he has great position to try and get '1 bet at a time' from the guys between him and the flop capper but in my experience a guy with those stats just knows to CR a set here.

Landonfan · #24 10-02-2007, 08:57 PM

I don't fold for one either. I'm just saying it's not good to think like that.

Bona · #25 10-02-2007, 09:04 PM

I'm kind of interested to know your thoughts when you 3 bet the flop? I am still thinking if we felt we had to go to showdown because of who these villains are the flop 3 bet was contra-indicated and once we are subsequently capped by one villain then donked by the other it is a not so subtle signal that we are toast.

Also I can't get A5 out of my mind when SB donks this turn. Largely because we are drawing stone dead against that and I think a) it is the most likely holding and b) it is likely in his range.

OziBattler · #26 10-02-2007, 10:03 PM

zomg I have a big pair Balls to teh mofo wall Value! Im expecting to get paid off by lower pockets and random pairs and draws that dont come in by the river. this isnt nitty FR its loose and easy 6max.

CO cap was a surprise but I still think that I have that lag beat since he didnt cap preflop and I dont put him on AA. UTG prob wont fold to even a cap but if he can make a FTOP mistake then it gives him a chance to when its 2 more to him. All was good in the world til the donk....

Landonfan · #27 10-02-2007, 10:10 PM

I forgot this was 6max. Don't fold here ever. And it's closer to a raise than I thought.

Bona · #28 10-02-2007, 10:29 PM

Landon,

What am I missing here. Is KK the absolute nutz in 6 max [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]? In full ring it beats no pair hands and smaller pairs. But it doesn't beat 2PR, AA, sets, trips, straights etc. you get the idea.

We are in 3rd place here if we are up against reasonable players. We have some outs against 2PR and 2 outs against sets. Pot odds are not a concern against a made st8. The only question is where are we against THESE players.

One last thing. The fact that bad players sometimes get good hands kind of balances the pot size. At least a little.

Wait... one more last thing. If they have played a few orbits with Aussie and are paying any attention at all, they are not firing at him with air [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

larm · #29 10-02-2007, 10:46 PM

A hand i just played.

Preflop was a misclick and the hand is not exactly the same as aussibattlers. The message is dont fold good hands for one bet.

Villian is Postflop lag.

Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP caps, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (16.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (19.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 21.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Jc (two pair, jacks and twos).
MP has Js Kd (two pair, jacks and twos).
Outcome: Hero wins 21.25 BB.

Xylocain · #30 10-02-2007, 10:51 PM

I think you are missing the point, we have one player racing to cap on the flop... and then ANOTHER player (that has been calling like 1 million bets cold) donks a relatively harmless card on the turn. He knows that he is in for a ride when he makes that donk and he still does it.

If we were heads up wit CO this would be the easiest hand evar.

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