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  #31  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:32 AM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Liberty Dollar office raided

[ QUOTE ]
this is disgutting. Can one single statist on here justify why this is even slightly a good idea?

What does this say about the government?

I beg of someone to please answer.

[/ QUOTE ]


Same "reason" as why it was unpatriotic during WWII to hoard your cash instead of buying war bonds. You're supposed to be willing to sink or swim with the other members of your collective instead of seeking only your own self-interest.

Financial ruin to the unpatriotic liberty dollar hoarders! In fiat currency do we trust!
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  #32  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:19 AM
rwesty rwesty is offline
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Default Re: Liberty Dollar office raided

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/016933.html

Link to search and seizure warrants.
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  #33  
Old 11-16-2007, 02:04 AM
VarlosZ VarlosZ is offline
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Location: Manhattan
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Default Re: Liberty Dollar office raided

[ QUOTE ]
this is disgutting. Can one single statist on here justify why this is even slightly a good idea?

What does this say about the government?

I beg of someone to please answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uniformity of currency facilitates trade. Probably some other reasons, too.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to barter with whatever they want, but it's not pointless craziness, nor is it a conspiracy to keep the masses down.
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  #34  
Old 11-16-2007, 02:10 AM
pvn pvn is offline
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Default Re: Liberty Dollar office raided

[ QUOTE ]
pvn,

Can you or some other Liberty dollar type currency supporter tell me why one would risk holding such certificates, that seem to be at risk from the US gov't, instead of just holding gold? While obviously paper or e-currency *if it is safe* (or more worthy than fiat currency), is more convenient, surely one can keep the bulk of such holdings in safe deposit boxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't hold these particular certificates, mostly because various government agencies have been hounding them for a while. Should have seen this coming.

That said, I do own some gold, and a portion of it is basically "virtual" in shares of GLD (where it's impossible to actually get the physical gold). This is mostly because it's a total pain in the ass to buy gold inside of an IRA.
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  #35  
Old 11-16-2007, 02:24 AM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Default Re: Liberty Dollar office raided

[ QUOTE ]
pvn,

Can you or some other Liberty dollar type currency supporter tell me why one would risk holding such certificates, that seem to be at risk from the US gov't, instead of just holding gold? While obviously paper or e-currency *if it is safe* (or more worthy than fiat currency), is more convenient, surely one can keep the bulk of such holdings in safe deposit boxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never owned any money through liberty dollars, but I scanned over their site a few times, it looked like they were setting up agreements with stores/chains where they would accept liberty dollars in exchange for goods. This would be pretty good if you could have 100% of your money in metals instead of having to keep X% for your monthly nut in US$.
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  #36  
Old 11-16-2007, 02:38 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver


"it's pretty clear that statute applies to counterfeiting not somethingn like the liberty dollar."

Uhhh no its not, since there are other statutes that deal with counterfeiting.
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  #37  
Old 11-16-2007, 02:58 AM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver

[ QUOTE ]
"it's pretty clear that statute applies to counterfeiting not somethingn like the liberty dollar."

Uhhh no its not, since there are other statutes that deal with counterfeiting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just talkking about § 486, it's talking abuot counterfeiting, go up one level to chapter 25.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/486.html
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  #38  
Old 11-16-2007, 03:14 AM
Misfire Misfire is offline
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Default Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pro, backed by accountable people.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is going to be a problem. Define "accountable people" please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it amazing how the actual instability and/or uncertainty of the liberty dollar comes not from unaccountability on the part of those issuing the currency, but from government interference...
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  #39  
Old 11-16-2007, 03:18 AM
Misfire Misfire is offline
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Default Re: This just in, government owns your gold and silver

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do if your business goes belly up due to the only currency available going bad? Where do you move then?

[/ QUOTE ]

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  #40  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:25 PM
DVaut1 DVaut1 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 4,751
Default Re: Liberty Dollar office raided

[ QUOTE ]
this is disgutting. Can one single statist on here justify why this is even slightly a good idea?

What does this say about the government?

I beg of someone to please answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, as I was saying to CaseClosed, it's probably a good idea to, you know, wait until the guys get charged with something before getting your hackles up.

Anyway, these guys are apparently going to be charged with mail fraud and money laundering; although the warrant to authorize the raid obviously isn't very specific. My guess is the feds will either accuse these guys of defrauding customers -- because I'm taking a shot in the dark that Liberty Dollar currency, while 'backed with a metal', probably does not have a value anywhere close to its claimed specie content; obviously there's going to be a markup, but who knows, the feds might claim there's fraud going on here -- and I suppose the mail fraud charge is because Liberty Dollar is using the US Postal Service to engage in that fraud (if that's really what's behind the mail fraud charge). Or perhaps they're going to make a counterfeiting charge of some sort (although I don't know how that would fall under USC 982). Or who knows, perhaps there's some other unknown reason -- or like I said earlier, maybe FBI is overaggressive and invented a reason. These are just guesses on my part.

Again, though, the posted link is about anyone outside of the FBI has to go on right now, so getting indignant and demanding answers and justifications from internet posters who don't work for the FBI probably won't get you anywhere at the moment:

http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/p...t_20071114.pdf

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