AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[mother_brain]

Ike,

I didn't mean to be a dick. Just wanted to point out that your decision to not go back might be easier and prove more correct if you consider that just as many fish as sharks are going to leave because of this scandal. If not a greater percentage.

[mntbikr15]

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When The Oscar Hilt Tatum Wedding Pictures were put up the response from Absolute Poker was definitive and SWIFT. Obviously, he and his family have immediate access to the decision makers at Absolute Poker. Immediate access also likely means some type of vested interest in the success of the site. There is no other explanation for the lightning quick response and denial of involvement.

Please do not let them off the hook on this. Oscar Hilt Tatum and Family are likely involved here.

Please do not drop the ball. Oscar, Hilt, Tatum...whatever your name is, I think it is very suspicious that Absolute Poker was so fast to announce your lack of involvement. Even if it is true....how would they know you are not involved? Dumbasses.

Don't let Seif off the hook, either. A bad guy, a boring guy, and likely much worse. He does not deserve a free pass. Do not forget about him here. He is not good for poker in any way.

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I like you

[vandyhawk]

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Those releases you saw earlier were sent out/approved by AJ from what I'm told.

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I think this is an important part that people have glossed over, and it certainly explains their initial denials. Think how long Robert Hanssen got away with giving info to the Soviets b/c he was assigned to investigate the leak (see the movie Breach). Today's statement, however disappointing, is really their first true statement, and hopefully more will come out with time.

[Josem]

Folks,

I've hardly been online over the last two days. I work full-time for a member of the australian parliament, and with the national elections in just 33 days, i simply don't have the time to read 3 hours of stuff on this a day.

However, reading bits and pieces, I gather that people are interested in referring this to police.

Here are contact details for them, kindly provided by a contributor to my website:

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The interpol contact sheet. http://www.interpol.com/public/mail/mail3.asp?id=info

Phone number costa rican police:

Police 222-1365 or 221-5337
country code: +506


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I am neither Canadian nor Costa Rican, nor have I lost any money in this situation. Thus, I think it would be fairly weak for either law enforcement group to act on my call.

However, it would seem sensible for someone who did have money stolen (and/or is Canadian/Costa Rican) to get the relevant police forces to investigate this.

[ikestoys]

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Ike,

I didn't mean to be a dick. Just wanted to point out that your decision to not go back might be easier and prove more correct if you consider that just as many fish as sharks are going to leave because of this scandal. If not a greater percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]
you are assuming that this info is equally distributed among players, this is obv not true.

[pygmyhipo]

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And as far as the alleged "Gaming Commission," it was created by the supposed "owner" of Absolute, the former chief of the very tribe whose authority AP and the commission derive its alleged authority from. I for one am not holding my breath. Together with the WCOOP issues, as well as the fulltilt recent bot problems, a "wild west" attitude from some operators, sham or non-existent regulation......this may not have a happy ending.

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I think the "Wild West" analogy is apt. In the wild west, you don't go crying to authority when somebody does you wrong. You either take care of it yourself or get over it. What can we do in this case?

1.Put pressure on Kahnawake and the Mohawks in general by threatening the livelihood of their two cash flows: (a) online gaming licensing and (b) online gaming hosting.

Currently they have a near monopoly on the licensing "seal of approval". Why do all those casino and poker sites send them quarterly bank wires for this seal? Because it looks good on their web page to be able to say "we are licensed and regulated by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission", the premier regulatory name in this area. The value of this seal is based on the reputation of the KGC. Up to now, your average joe has never heard of the KGC and figures it is better than nothing, maybe even a legitimate watchdog. So the poker/casino sites keep paying. But if that seal starts to stink, then the sites have no reason to keep paying. It's not like there aren't equivalently toothless alternatives.

The key here is to cause a break between the Kahnawake interests and those of AP. I don't believe for a minute that Joe Norton is the true sole owner of AP, notwithstanding what the AP web site used to say re Tokwiro and an unnamed individual Mohawk. If the Mohawks see there really is a threat to their licensing revenue, they may find it in their own interest to force the issue with AP: either by revoking their seal or insisting on a true audit (which so far we have seen little evidence of). Then the true owner of AP may see it really is time to clean house.

How do we force this on Kahnawake? Make as big a public stink about the corruptness of the KGC licensing program as we can. Highlight previous examples of their failure to prevent or punish fraudulent operators carrying their seal. Find groups in Canada who have their own reasons they would like to see the Mohawks' wings clipped. Make sure they are aware of the current scandal. Show them this is their opportunity.

Might this also put at risk the cash flow from hosting (the MIT facility)? It doesn't seem as likely, since here they really do offer unique value to customers like Stars and FTP. What other data center has such excellent connectivity to the North American internet backbone with zero oversight by US or Canadian authorities? None that I know of. This is a tougher nut to crack. But who knows, might some Canadian agency be itching for an excuse to find a way to either shut them down or tax them? Pure speculation ...

2.Put pressure on Absolute Poker by choking off their advertising venues.

Wage an unending campaign with the top 10 poker properties to refuse all Absolute ads. Use all our poker affiliate SEO wizardry to capture Google searches for Absolute with sites about the cheating scandal. There are a lot of affiliates who already have it in for Absolute. Look at PokerListings, one of the biggest: they had blacklisted them even before the scandal in retalitation for AP Affiliate program insults. If anyone knows SEO it's PokerListings.

3.Put pressure on the day-to-day management of Absolute by bringing their names and activities to the attention of US authorities.

Most of them are US citizens and have family and friends in the US. The reason they are so careful to keep their identities out of the public eye is they want to freely travel to and from the US without fear of arrest. We have already uncovered some facts about these people, but I'm sure insiders (especially former insiders) could provide a lot more.

I know we all hate the way the DOJ has intimidated online poker operators with dubious claims of illegality. But let's use it to our advantage for once. And note, AP/UB offers casino blackjack as well as poker.

The IRS might also be interested in the high-income lifestyles of these US citizens, who are required by law to report their worldwide income regardless of source or their current country of residence. Private jets to Colombia and Panama?! Lavish weddings in France? Remember the IRS has a bounty program for those who bring cases of illegal tax evasion to their attention.

4. Find out who the true owner of AB is.

I would not be surprised to find it is an individual in the US. I imagine this person enjoys living in the US and would prefer to not be publically identified as the owner of a major offshore poker/casino operation. I have no helpful suggestion on how to accomplish this...


-pyg

[mooz3]

What a damn shame that Oscar Hilt Tatum's mother in law has to be associated with this creep (and his friends) for the rest of her life. Shame on all of you (That's you Oscar...and your frat Buddies).

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/webspeci...de/index.shtml

[h11]

Somewhere in following this story I read that Canadian provincial police are investigating this matter.

[mother_brain]

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[ QUOTE ]
Ike,

I didn't mean to be a dick. Just wanted to point out that your decision to not go back might be easier and prove more correct if you consider that just as many fish as sharks are going to leave because of this scandal. If not a greater percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]
you are assuming that this info is equally distributed among players, this is obv not true.

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What percentage of 5-10+ players do you think will be unaware of the situation in a month? I would say 25% of them not knowing would be generous.

[Dan Druff]

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The PPA is a political organization designed to fight for our legal right to play poker. I do not believe they are intended to be an industry watchdog. Do you think they should take over the role of the Nevada Gaming Commission as well?

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"WHO IS THE POKER PLAYERS ALLIANCE?
The Poker Players Alliance is a nonprofit membership organization comprised of poker players and enthusiasts from around the United States who have joined together to speak with one voice to promote the game, ensure its integrity, and, most importantly, to protect poker players' rights."

That's from their own webpage.

If they are simply a political lobbying organization, they should say so, and people paying their dues should be informed that the PPA is not concerned with anything in poker besides the game's legality in the US.

I guarantee you that the vast majority of the 800,000+ members thought they were joining an organization that would have stepped up and intervened in a major, widespread matter like this.