3 commerce hands

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

didnt pay that close attention, but they were like 400 into a 700ish and maybe a 500 into a 1k? He seemed to always act fast. he bet this river though SOOOOOO fast. I hardly saw the card before his chips hit the felt.

-Jason

[RiverFenix]

Edit: crap, didnt see river was a club. Raising is pretty silly here.

[ QUOTE ]
if you dont mind me asking, what is he paying off with? He check called flop with Kx?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it would be helpful to know if you had the Kc.

I see it as he either has a K here or missed clubs.

Im not entirely sure what hes doing w/ AK/KQ/KJxx pf but this is a solid flop for him to bluff-peel OOP with. Possibly 6 outs, bluff equity, possibly 15 if holding a hand like KJ/KQcc.
Anyway, if hes bluffing or has a really strong hand he grossely misplays the turn. Any sort of check raise here is so much better than a riv 1/2pot donk if he wants to get value w/ a 7 or 44. I may be reading too far into the instacall it but it seems like the K helped his hand and he abandoned any plan to bluff and wants to showdown.

River just looks like a vbet/blocker to me. If its a bluff he has to figure youre looking him up since hes not really representing any real strength, but you said he made bad bluffs before so cant rule out suited connecting clubs.

Not entirely sure what Kxs he'll talk himself into calling a raise with but I think youre missing value by not raising top two and letting him make a decision. Also, I dont think the odds of him 3b ai here are too high -- youve shown a great deal of strength w/ bet,bet, raise and like I said I dont think hes super strong by his turn play.

Edit: crap, didnt see river was a club. Raising is pretty silly here.

[restrikt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Raise a large amount > Fold > Call.
2. Fold.
3. I like.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im so fed up with [censored] like this man. How are you going to post Raise a large amount > Fold > Call. and not even explain yourself. FWIW, I would reverse the order there but Im not sure -- hence the post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are behind here almost every time, so calling is not an option.

This is obviously read dependent, but based on what you described of villain's quick bet on the river, plus the size of the bet, I really think this is a blocking bet that will fold to a large river raise. Unless he's a huge calling station, in which case it's a fold.

And I completely disagree with whoever said raising the river would be for value - raising the river is obviously a bluff here.

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

i didnt have the Kc

[fukkeneh]

#1- If you think he's bluffing call. Obviously you beat nothing.

#2- I think Gene plays a set faster on the flop. I probably go with it and raise, calling a push. I put him on A-J or A-9 or 99-- possibly JTs if he's that weak tight. I think folding here is weak, and not raising is also weak. As far as shaky hands go, he probably needs to blaze up. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

#3- All the draws missed. Why not check and call a river bet.

[wins_pot]

my vote.....
1. call.
2. fold.
3. i'd prob check turn and fold to a bet. given that you bet turn, i think the bet on the end is OK. maybe an uncomfortable check-call is better? hard to say.

ba

[dlpnyc21]

Hand 1:
This is really dirty, but I think I puke and call. He clearly likes his hand, and a donkey donkey smooth call, smooth call-- lead is usually a nutted hand. I would expect to see a 7 or a flush like 80% of the time, and some random block/bet bluff a part of the time. The only reason I would call is because his bet is smallish relative to the pot size, and I would think he would have to consider his bet size more if he actually hit the flush.

2. I don't know who gene todd is, but I call, and reevaluate river. I would be very cautious in this hand, but there is too good of a chance you are ahead of AxJc, and who knows what his overlimping range is on the button (any two???). The shaky hand is player dependent (sometimes it means strength, sometimes weakness depending on the player--that's how it works live, it's funny). CRing is very silly, chk-folding to such a small bet is not bad, but kind of weak because your hand still has a high % chance of being good. The only thing that worries me in this hand is that he was the overcaller. People live don't usually overcall with one pair type hands, it's usually draws or stronger made hands, so that would tilt his range to the draw/Q9 in my mind a bit more.

3. I don't get this one. Are you bluff/block/value betting? I've started to do this a bit online, and it usually works a lot better as a bluff. I probably check this turn, your hand is not that great and maybe you can snap a bluff on the river. I'm trying to figure out if betting is better than checking on this river, and I think it is, if only for the fact that he folds 77-1010 SOME of the time, although not often. Weird bet, but I guess it's ok.

[rand]

1. i may call hand one bc im a station but most hands that take his line, c,c flop (esp for a donk) are strictly limited to trips/sd/fd, in light of your description i still cant tell if he is capable of 1/2 pot donk as a bluff or not but regardless you seem beat-he doesnt vbet a random k here bc he has showdown value...so you could just look him up for fun but a fold is prolly good here (raise is awful)

2. no hands hes repping make sense with his pf play unless he is the most passive/weak tight person ever...also 2 of hands that you beat but that are semi strong (a,7 a,9 q,9) prolly get a raise in on the flop...so to me nothing makes sense here...id call and re eval the river (is Gene Todd the type of guy who would he pay off a rivered boat with a flush?)

3. is your riv bet blocking/trying to induce some sick bluff raise? if so i guess those plays are read dependent but i think the default line here is check/call...you have reasonably good showdown value and he could deff bet a missed draw in that spot, i think any 6 checks except the thinest v-bet ever from a6, also if he does have a jx,cc i think you would have heard from him on the turn, but, lets say hes super passive-his vbet with a j on the riv is about the same amount as your bet anyway, so i dont see what you loose here from a check and you do gain from it (unless you think a wose 6pays you off but doesnt bet-seems unlikely)... so check/call is my riv line

wow i dunno how i wrote an essay on those three hands but there you have, sorry its too long/rambling,

rand

[fukkeneh]

[ QUOTE ]
#1- If you think he's bluffing call. Obviously you beat nothing.

#2- I think Gene plays a set faster on the flop. I probably go with it and raise, calling a push. I put him on A-J or A-9 or 99-- possibly JTs if he's that weak tight. I think folding here is weak, and not raising is also weak. As far as shaky hands go, he probably needs to blaze up. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

#3- All the draws missed. Why not check and call a river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2, didnt see that flush got there. As played easy fold... why not bet turn and fold to a raise ?

[rand]

ha, dlp i dont think ive ever agreed with someone more, looks like you posted while i was still typing...