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  #31  
Old 11-17-2007, 11:24 AM
Pot Odds RAC Pot Odds RAC is offline
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Default Re: Player really can\'t afford to play

[ QUOTE ]
i agree with the "if you're not good enough friends to discuss it with him" than it's not your concern about his cashflow. at the least maybe a "how about we play a tourney so everyone only has to risk x amount" We always had the guys when we played "dealer choice" a few years ago, that would hit the atm twice everytime we played...in the end, he's an adult, i personally would take his money if he didn't want to take my advice

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just typing a similar response when I saw this post.

I agree.

I think it is sort of a Passive, bordering on martyristic, move to change the rules of the home game because one guy can't handle himself. If he is a good enough friend to worry about him losing a hundred bucks then he is a good enough friend to take the effort to talk to him. Ultimately he and his wife need to handle his problem. If it is so distracting for him to be at the games, then treat it like any other guy that is behaving inappropriately - tell him he is not welcome until he changes his behavior.
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  #32  
Old 11-18-2007, 09:29 AM
OrrLives OrrLives is offline
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Default UPDATE

[ QUOTE ]
i agree with the "if you're not good enough friends to discuss it with him" than it's not your concern about his cashflow. at the least maybe a "how about we play a tourney so everyone only has to risk x amount" We always had the guys when we played "dealer choice" a few years ago, that would hit the atm twice everytime we played...in the end, he's an adult, i personally would take his money if he didn't want to take my advice

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel like it is selling alcohol to a known alcoholic. Your own set of moral values will determine whether you are OK with this.

UPDATE:
GoodP and myself told everyone that we were going to cut the stakes in half and we wouldn't play otherwise.

So the game is now a 0.125/0.25 game (they like the chips to all have the same value, so we can't have a 0.10/0.25 game. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Each chip is worth 0.125 and we have to play with cash on the table.. this is the type of home game I'm dealing with. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] ).

LAGP seemed to be a little upset by this (he wanted to play the normal 0.25/0.50 game), but he had no choice. His wife seemed happy with the new stakes. No one else complained

HOWEVER... LAGP and his wife still lost ~$100-125 with the help of a couple bad beats. I can only imagine how bad it would have been if we played the normal stakes.

Unfortunately, I only won ~$15 or so, mostly because I was on the losing end of a set over set situation, but no one wants to hear a bad luck story [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #33  
Old 11-20-2007, 11:01 AM
Feroc Feroc is offline
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Default Re: UPDATE

Has anyone tried to talk to his wife yet? Doesn't she notice, that he is losing too much?
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  #34  
Old 11-20-2007, 02:12 PM
Runner Runner Runner Runner is offline
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Default Re: UPDATE

Play with a $10-$20 CAP so that players cannot lose more then a set amount in 1 hand, or allow ratholing in your game and encourage this player and any others you feel sorry for to do it.

Anykind of limitations on how deep the game is will help this player's chances. Heck, even bumping up the blinds and playing with the same amount of money or adding more blind money to the game through straddles, etc... would help him out.
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  #35  
Old 11-21-2007, 09:32 AM
JokersAttack JokersAttack is offline
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Default Re: UPDATE

Just play tournaments, it isn't that hard to change back. Just say some pople voiced complains about having to risk such large, unlimited amounts of their own money.

You guys will still have big edges over the bad players, but won't feel bad in taking their money.

If you just reduce the limits it won't make a difference, especially if they're raising 5 dollars preflop in a game with 20 dollar buyins and .25/50 blinds.

However, if LagP and other losing lagtards refuse to go back to the tournament structure, I'd just accomodate their wishes and continue to take their money until they learn.
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  #36  
Old 11-21-2007, 09:44 AM
OrrLives OrrLives is offline
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Default Re: UPDATE

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone tried to talk to his wife yet? Doesn't she notice, that he is losing too much?

[/ QUOTE ]

She does notice, that is why she was happy that the stakes were lowered.

But it would be too awkward to openly say something like, "You guys can't afford to play at higher stakes with your poor skills, so we are lowering the stakes."
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  #37  
Old 11-21-2007, 03:49 PM
pfapfap pfapfap is offline
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Default Re: UPDATE

Why not just say that you want to play a deeper stack poker but you don't want to price anybody out. This way you can all play for the same money but have more maneuverability.

Or just leave things as they are. If his losing at your games is affecting your relationship with him, then talk to him about it away from the game as diplomatically as you know how. It's not your responsibility to parent everybody, and to change the entire game because of one person is rather absurd.
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  #38  
Old 11-21-2007, 06:34 PM
OrrLives OrrLives is offline
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Default Re: UPDATE

[ QUOTE ]
Why not just say that you want to play a deeper stack poker but you don't want to price anybody out. This way you can all play for the same money but have more maneuverability.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the home game I play in is about the least sophisticated in the world. They don't care about deep stack poker and probably have no idea how to adjust. They are the type of people who watch the WSOP on ESPN and say "Wow, 1 million is a good bet" without any knowledge of effective stack sizes, pot size, etc. 40BB is already deep enough for them (I'm sure they don't think about the game in terms of BB anyways). This justification is meaningless to them.

As I said a few posts ago, GoodP and myself simply said we are lowering the stakes, period (in a nice way, of course).


[ QUOTE ]
It's not your responsibility to parent everybody, and to change the entire game because of one person is rather absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. But this is a small home game (almost never more than 8 players) and the guilt of 3 of the players (GoodP, my gf and me) is getting in the way of having a good time.

Should a bartender feel guilty about selling expensive liquor to an alcoholic whose financial situation is crumbling because he cannot control his addiction? It depends on the one's own moral values.

In my case, I feel guilty about taking a ton of money from LAGP when he cannot afford it... I can't help this feeling. So I decided to act on my guilt.
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  #39  
Old 11-21-2007, 10:25 PM
quickfetus quickfetus is offline
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Default Re: Player really can\'t afford to play

I was in a slightly similar situation at my old university. A guy in my regular game (we played $20 SNGs or .25/.50 cash) was consistently a big loser. The fact that he had a form of personality disorder probably didn't help either. We all became friendly through the game, so I ended up getting him HoH volume 1 for his birthday. He still kept losing. Some people don't get it. . .
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  #40  
Old 11-23-2007, 07:49 AM
Dromar Dromar is offline
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Default Re: Player really can\'t afford to play

[ QUOTE ]
so I ended up getting him HoH volume 1 for his birthday.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this idea. It's a subtle hint, yet not insulting in any way. It's always difficult to talk to a friend about how bad they play (obviously) because you don't want to insult their intelligence. Buying him a book as a gift literally puts his problem into his own hands. As other people have said, he's an adult capable of making his own decisions. If you give him the chance to learn and get better, there's no excuse, and IMO nothing more that you can (or should) do.

I'm in a somewhat similar situation as described in the OP, but much less intense. I have a friend (actually, one of my best friends) who is pretty bad at poker. We play $.1/.25 NLHE cash game at his request and insistence. We had played LHE and/or limit dealer's choice in the past, but now he insists on playing NLHE. Fortunately, I haven't had to take action because:
1. He's got a job
2. He has nobody to support
3. He will occasionally win (like one time in 10 he'll be up $30)
4. He usually stops buying in after $60 or $80.
5. A couple of the other players in the game aren't much better than he is (though they tend not to lose as much on average).



To OP: I think you're doing the right thing by taking action, but you need to be careful to neither insult his intelligence nor make decisions for him. He is an adult, and in the end it's solely his responsibility and his decision to manage his money. It's too bad that he keeps rebuying. He must rebuy 6 or 7 times to get $150 in the hole. Maybe you could play shorter sessions to limit his potential loss. I think stopping the game when it gets to the point of having >4 people is a good idea. When it gets down to you, GoodP, and LAGP, it's one person losing a bunch of money, and two people feeling guilty about it. What fun is that?
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