Playing OOP w/ 99 - Page 4

Unknown Soldier · #31 11-24-2007, 03:40 AM

they ain't calling with 88 often (note i did use the word most, so don't be accusing me of inconsistency again [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

i v. rarely squeeze either fwiw

Speedlimits · #32 11-24-2007, 03:42 AM

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they ain't calling with 88 often (note i did use the word most, so don't be accusing me of inconsistency again [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

i v. rarely squeeze either fwiw

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smaller pocket pairs/overcards/suited connectors are way more in their range than 1010-AA.

not squeezing that often is a leak.

Unknown Soldier · #33 11-24-2007, 03:47 AM

scs? smaller pockets? lead me to your games sir. I just don't see it that often. We are agreeing with each other about the theory btw, just not about our opponents calling ranges.

i do squeeze, but rarely with pps. not a leak.

Speedlimits · #34 11-24-2007, 03:54 AM

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scs? smaller pockets? lead me to your games sir. I just don't see it that often. We are agreeing with each other about the theory btw, just not about our opponents calling ranges.

i do squeeze, but rarely with pps. not a leak.

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yeah i misread i didnt see the "either" my bad. most people play horrible in 3bet pots though.

also the opponent thing is situational im just going off my experience in 3bet pots since i 3bet/squeeze light alot.

Some9 · #35 11-24-2007, 11:02 AM

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do you know why squeezing with lower pocket pairs is worse? I can tell you if you want.

we have a hand with value aka 66. We want to maintain this value i.e. we don't want to turn our hand into a bluff.

calling 66>squeezing because the money we make from flopping sets/oesds are > then the amount of times we make money off squeezing.

when we squeeze with 99 we are squeezing for value. we are ahead of most villains calling range. This is why squeezing with 99 is better than squeezing with 66. we are squeezing for totally different reasons. v

VALUE OF 99>BLUFF OF 66.

its illogical to turn a hand WITH VALUE into a bluff. even more so when the implied value of our hand is >than the amount of money we gain from a successful squeeze.

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I'm not sure I follow this completely. Would you be so kind to make it a little more clear?

Obviously with 99 we protect and get (more) value preflop with a squeeze. But he rest is kinda fuzzy imo [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

wslee00 · #36 11-24-2007, 11:22 AM

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also the opponent thing is situational im just going off my experience in 3bet pots since i 3bet/squeeze light alot.

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i think if you squeeze light then squeezing w/ 99 here is good since people will call with lower pp's, but for the rest of us (I'm sure many people do not squeeze light), this is a call pf imo.

Paul Thomson · #37 11-24-2007, 01:25 PM

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most of the time 99=66=22 after you squeeze. So obv better to squeeze with 66 then 99.

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man this statement makes my head hurt.

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i'm not sure if anyone has a good handle on when to 3-bet or how to play in the pots even if they can make assumptions about the Villain.

jlocdog · #38 11-24-2007, 02:23 PM

Speedlimits,

The reasons you stated for squeezing are very valid on on track with my thought process.

US,

99 do not = 66. And 66 do not = 22. PP's do not have a set amount of value in which they are nicely categorized. What I mean is many of you want to have a graph like picture in the shape of a triangle where each hand fits very nicely in its designated spot of worth. Hands change value depending upon your opponents, your position, your image, blah blah...People rely too much on default value and forget to take into consideration situational value. It would be the same if you would always say AA are AA. They are the best hand, while the board read 7c8c9cTc2d. Absolute and relative strength are very different. This goes for PF as well as post.

As I stated in my original post and reiterated, against these opponents I would probably reraise preflop and bet this flop and shut down if called. Why? Because my hand most likely rates to be the best preflop. On the flop my hand may still be best but is now extremely vulnerable. If one of my opponents goes past this flop, he most likely has a J or better. So I will shut down. I don't feel like being sandwiched postflop and playing a guessing game when my PP is essentially 2nd pair. If the PF coldcaller was a big fish, I probably just call and play some poker. Many reasons for that which need not going into to to derail this thread.

JonnyCosmo,

"lol ur so bad"

STFU. You don't know crap and jumping into this thread just to insult someone is rude and uncalled for. The fact that it is me that you are insulting makes no difference. I despise your kind.

Kimpan · #39 11-24-2007, 02:47 PM

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As I stated in my original post and reiterated, against these opponents I would probably reraise preflop and bet this flop and shut down if called. Why? Because my hand most likely rates to be the best preflop. On the flop my hand may still be best but is now extremely vulnerable. If one of my opponents goes past this flop, he most likely has a J or better. So I will shut down. I don't feel like being sandwiched postflop and playing a guessing game when my PP is essentially 2nd pair. If the PF coldcaller was a big fish, I probably just call and play some poker. Many reasons for that which need not going into to to derail this thread.

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nice post.
Question: does this apply IP as well? MP raises, CO calls and we are OTB with either 66 or 99, are we more inclined to 3bet with 99 than we are with 66?