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#22
08-02-2007, 11:19 AM
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Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
[ QUOTE ]
3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd. Is this correct, do they charge a seat fee and take a rake? Or is it a BBJ $1. Also, if so does it apply to the bigger NL games? Also, what is the max buy in and can you reload at any time? [/ QUOTE ] for the no limit games the only rake is a $6 per half hour time fee. the 1-2 no limit game also qualifies for the bad beat jackpot, so they take $1 out of all pots over $20. the 2-5 game is not affiliated with the bad beat. the max buy in for 1-2 is $300, for 2-5 is $1k, you can reload to the max any time between hands. 
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#23
08-02-2007, 01:38 PM
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Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
Yeah, in fact, until I went to vegas last month (where South Point seemed to be an exception), I had never heard of anyplace where any NL game, or any limit game higher than 10/20 qualified for the Bad Beat Jackpot.
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#24
08-02-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
[ QUOTE ]
My main problems 1) Every game is being whored to max out the rake. Huge time charges + rake at NL, full kill or strange structures at NL games. Obviously this is immediately disadvantageous to a good player (more rake obviously = bad), but the weird structures they keep on inserting often lead to... It is good business to charge the maximum the market will bear. [/ QUOTE ] No [censored] it's good for business. And bad for players. You do realize you just tried to counterargue the the premise "Higher rake is bad for players," don't you? [ QUOTE ] 2) Games necessitating strategic changes that are unclear to skilled players. For example, Caesar's dropped 2/4 in favor of 2/4-4/8 ($2 increments PF, $4 on flop & turn, $8 on river). While it's clear that this requires loose PF play, tighter flop play, looser turn play, etc., specific plays and strategies are unclear. this paragraph doesn't make any sense. I think skilled players understand how to play but that game isn't designed for skilled players, it is for loose ass donkeys that like to play every hand. [/ QUOTE ] How does it not make sense? Maybe re-read it. What is this stuff about who the game is designed for? Who cares? Again, these hybrid games require strategic changes for good players. Those changes aren't known right now (haven't been written about or discussed in any significant detail, as "normal" games have been). Even for the players who are intelligent enough to reason out and calculate some strategic changes, there's no empirical data to verify them, making their long-term use risky. [ QUOTE ] 3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd. I think this is player dependant. [/ QUOTE ] I don't. At those tables with sloppy, inexperienced players, you're lucky to see 25 hands/hour. With a $6/half hour time charge, it costs $48 to see 100 hands at 1/2, so you need to clear 12PTBB/100 to win in the long run. If you factor out the 2PTBB/100ish average 1/2NL rake, it's still not beatable. Add in a fraction of the $1/hand BBJ rake and it's unbeatable (a fraction because there is, of course, some chance you'll win the BBJ...but it's still -EV, though variable on how much $ is in the pot). I don't think it's player dependent 4) Wait times do suck. Yes, calling ahead is nice...when you don't get bumped off the list b/c of random sporadic I-64 or I-71 traffic, which happens all the time. Showing up in person, 1 hour waits are not uncommon at the lower limits. I haven't waited more than an hour in a really long time other than when the WSOP Circuit events are in town, of course. 5) Comps suck. If the occasional casino-provided free meal makes a significant difference in your bank account, you're [censored] here. Caesar's offers the worst comps of any casino in the US. Ameristar in St Charles MO used to be 50 cents an hour. I don't know the current comp rate. [/ QUOTE ] Your last two comments are valid. Calling ahead is still nice though long waits are still somewhat common. There are casinos with worse comping than Caesars, but they're very few, and aren't in Southern Indiana. Even with all of that considered, it's still usually your best bet due to the game selection.
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#25
08-02-2007, 06:56 PM
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Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
How does it not make sense? Maybe re-read it. What is this stuff about who the game is designed for? Who cares? Again, these hybrid games require strategic changes for good players. Those changes aren't known right now (haven't been written about or discussed in any significant detail, as "normal" games have been).
better read a few more poker books, strategy for no foldem holdem has not only been written about, it has been well covered Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd. I think this is player dependant. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't. At those tables with sloppy, inexperienced players, you're lucky to see 25 hands/hour. With a $6/half hour time charge, it costs $48 to see 100 hands at 1/2, so you need to clear 12PTBB/100 to win in the long run. If you factor out the 2PTBB/100ish average 1/2NL rake, it's still not beatable. Add in a fraction of the $1/hand BBJ rake and it's unbeatable (a fraction because there is, of course, some chance you'll win the BBJ...but it's still -EV, though variable on how much $ is in the pot). I don't think it's player dependent LOL, I guess I need to translate, if you can't beat the rake against those loose ass donkeys, you suck at No Limit.
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#26
08-03-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: Indiana <doesn\'t> suck--- harrah\'s/caesars
First trip to caesars saturday -- we've played several times at argosy and belterra so far this year...
I hadn't heard about the 2/4-4/8 game -- does that run all the time? That actually sounds kind of interesting... Their web site does mention both 2/4 and 4/8 -- do they spread a normal 2/4 game and if not is 4/8 regularly spread? Any mid limits in action on a saturday or is most of that dead now? Is the time charge strictly for NL?
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#27
08-03-2007, 12:03 AM
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Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
[ QUOTE ]
better read a few more poker books, strategy for no foldem holdem has not only been written about, it has been well covered [/ QUOTE ] Can you read? If you seriously think there's no strategic difference between a normal 2/4 game and a 2/4-4/8 game, then your grasp of poker fundamentals is way too low for you to even comment on any of this. And no, it's not limited to playing "no fold em hold em," a phrase I've never heard uttered by anyone who actually knows how to play cards. [ QUOTE ] LOL, I guess I need to translate, if you can't beat the rake against those loose ass donkeys, you suck at No Limit. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] For >13PTBB/100? Tell you what, get onto any NL forum on this site (yes, including the micros), and put up the following poll: "Is it possible to sustain a 13PTBB+/100 winrate in the long run at 1/2, without cheating, yes or no?" If anyone answers "yes" and gives a rational and logically correct explanation, I'll transfer you $100. Of course, if you didn't already know that, then you there's no way you can have any kind of meaningful understanding of NLHE. More evidence for what I wrote above. Oh, and if you're going to post idiotic garbage, at least have the courtesy to not be an ass while you do it. A great example of how meaningless a high post count is. By the way, when and what do you play at Caesars? I'd love to share your company at a table.
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#28
08-03-2007, 12:04 AM
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Re: Indiana <doesn\'t> suck--- harrah\'s/caesars
[ QUOTE ]
First trip to caesars saturday -- we've played several times at argosy and belterra so far this year... I hadn't heard about the 2/4-4/8 game -- does that run all the time? That actually sounds kind of interesting... Their web site does mention both 2/4 and 4/8 -- do they spread a normal 2/4 game and if not is 4/8 regularly spread? Any mid limits in action on a saturday or is most of that dead now? Is the time charge strictly for NL? [/ QUOTE ] 2/4-4/8 is regular. Pretty sure time charge is just for NL.
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#29
08-03-2007, 12:24 AM
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Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
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A great example of how meaningless a high post count is. By the way, when and what do you play at Caesars? I'd love to share your company at a table. [/ QUOTE ] Tuesday and Fridays in the afternoons when my business allows. You'll have to give a description otherwise I'll never be able pick you out from all the others that think they know everything and have no manners. PS. I am relatively certain that your win rate should be calculated after the rake. If I understand your posistion correctly, there are no and can never be any winning players in the $1-2 NL game at Caesar's IN and that just isn't the case. Edited because I decided to check Statking. I have a small sample size in the game but am winning a small blind per hour and I suck at NL it is my worst game and if I can beat the rake then you are completely full of [censored].
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#30
08-03-2007, 12:32 AM
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Re: Indiana sucks--- harrah\'s/caesars
[ QUOTE ]
Can you read? If you seriously think there's no strategic difference between a normal 2/4 game and a 2/4-4/8 game, then your grasp of poker fundamentals is way too low for you to even comment on any of this. And no, it's not limited to playing "no fold em hold em," a phrase I've never heard uttered by anyone who actually knows how to play cards. [/ QUOTE ] Come to Colorado Buddy (where the maximum bet allowed is only 5 bucks, and NL poker is but a memory to me, something I can only play when I'm outside of this crappy state), they'll teach ya what the phrase really means (complete with major dings to your wallet, as they take your money with 9, duce off suit (capped of course before the flop) when they bingo on the river, when their gutshot whatever hits on the river) here, in less than an hour, as they (the locals here) play any two cards to the river, and rip your preimium hands to shreads in a heartbeat. No Fold 'em Hold 'em is also called, Lotto Poker, Circus poker, and Bingo Poker. I invite you to come to Blackhawk and play in the Heartland Poker Tour event in October, play in what passes for live action here (top cash game allowed here is 5/5 limit, Dealers Choice) and see for yourself just how great you really have it at Ceasars Indiana (and other casinos like that that allow for higher limits of poker (like 10/20 and above) and NL poker).
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