Cheating at a poker room?

[jeffnc]

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I said they where cheating, not that they where smart or good or discrete at it. This was just one example of their team work observed many times.

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Yeah, but what you said is that they need "signals" for raises or folds, which is obviously ridiculous to anyone who's played poker before. So your story has a strange little hole in it. It's not a question of "being good at it", it's a question of you percieving some need for signals, which raises a question about your ability to evaluate the entire situation.

[TropAndEastern]

If they were cheating, in the hand where Sue reraised Tommy's flop bet, why wouldn't he have checked to her, let her bet the $120, have the old lady call the $120, then reraise it in order to get another $120 out of the third party. Instead they risked over $600 to get her $60 bucks. And you observed all of this in under an hour? Seems like a really paranoid uncalled for accusation to me. I think I'd be grateful to have them playing at my table. Thanks for chasing them out of Bellagio.

[moris]

I think I have seen that girl there. So far, I have seen her with about 3 different guys. Based on your evidence and her style of play, I don't see collusion. The girl I am thing of plays an aggressive game post flop. Based on her playing style, I don't see what you observed as being collusion.

But I could be talking about someone completely different.

[David Troyer]

Yea, sue is a cute small asian chick with black hair.

[AngusThermopyle]

Did the Bellagio bar you for something and this is your way of "getting back"?

So these two were "regulars". And in all this time, nobody caught on to their "routine" except OP? Oh, I forgot. The staff are corrupt too. That's the point of the post. Not that you "caught" two colluders, but that everybody should avoid the Bellagio.

I don't buy what you are selling.

[cwar]

This wouldnt surprise me at all, it meshes pretty well with what Ive heard. No personal experience in the game however.

[MaxWeiss]

Rather than fill up the WPDG e-mails, although I'm sure that will happen soon enough, I will say my thought's here David.

You did the right thing by contacting the GCB, since that's the most efficient way to do something. You're 45 minutes of watching them amounts to... 30 hands at most, probably closer to 20. So "every time he raised" amounts to at most 3 or 4 times, right. Plus if she knows to always call his raise, he doesn't need to be signaling. It's only if he's on her left that any of the signals you talk about are in any way necessary.

So what we have so far is you observing, at most 4 times, a "cheating" action which is useless. Then you observe one questionable move. The one move they make, risks a combined $640 for a net win of $60. Then you observe the couple, who are "regulars" getting upset that they aren't allowed to play together, which presumably they have been able to do for a while, since they are regulars.

I think you probably have a good sense of sniffing things out, and I trust your judgment, and despite what I said, I think you are probably right that they are cheating. BUT the two important things to remember are: 1) they clearly suck at it and are very exploitable in the way they do it, and 2) as you said, Tommy also lost 2 buy ins in what must have been less than 2 hours (based on the figures you have provided) waiting for the table change.

That being said, I'm glad you contacted Gaming and are trying to make the room a fair and good place to play.

Edit: Plus, you said you DID get them barred from the property (even if they helped!). I don't see how you can be so upset about the way things went down when your evidence is slim at best.

[RadGrad2005]

Is it at all possible that two players might enjoy playing at the same table more than they would at different tables? Of course it is.

Also, as already has been noted, there is no need for a signal for folding or raising if the act of folding/raising itself will serve to communicate that.

Is a player getting upset because he/she is not allowed to move to a table where a friend is playing indicative of cheating? Is it possible that this can occur among players who are playing honestly, and not cheating? Of course, it is.

Rather than concluding that they probably just wanted to play together, which was probably more likely, you chose to believe that they were cheating based on rather illogical assertions.

It really dumbfounds me how someone can have such a lack of logical thinking. Honestly, I'm not sure why, but it also somewhat annoys and angers me. How can someone be that stupid?

[meow_meow]

It's pretty pathetic that something like that could go on at the Bellagio, but I'm more surprised by the credulity of a lot of the responses - just because they are trying to cheat doesn't mean they do it well.

But really, I think the dealers have some responsibility to stop this kind of thing. They are in the unique position of being able to seruptitiously scope mucked hands. I remember one day playing at a indian casino in nowhere Ontario, two guys came in, sat down beside each other, were obviously kicking each other under the table, laughing, and making it pretty obvious. I gave the dealer a look, she shrugs. Next dealer comes in, a guy I know plays and deals underground in Toronto. 5 minutes in he calls over the supervisor and whispers something to her, 5 minutes later the cheaters are kicked. It should be just that easy. This is a 5-10 FL game in backwater Ontario, not 5-10 NL at the Bellagio.

[CAMEL1111]

WOW, wtf?