tournament rule question

[Rocco_835]

This situation happened last night at a tournament I was running and I honestly didn't know the correct rule...but here goes.

Blinds at 1000/2000, the player under the gun (call him player A) raised to 5000 total. The player behind him (player B) goes all-in for 7500 total. The button (player C) calls the 7500, the blinds fold and the action goes back to the original raiser, player A, who made it 5000 originally. He reraises himself all-in, which was about 8500 total.

Some of the people at the tournament were telling me that the original raiser (player A) can't re-raise because when player B put himself all-in for only 7500 total...it didn't qualify as an actual raise because he couldn't double the previous raise. So they were trying to tell player A that his only option was to flat call the extra 2500 preflop.

Personally, I think this sounds crazy. I've never heard of that rule and as far as I understand it...when you play No-Limit poker, there is no point in which you can tell someone that they aren't allowed to raise.

Has anyone encountered this before or does anyone know of this rule or where to find it?

Thanks

-Rocco

[oyvindgee]

The rule is correct. Of course it's up to you if you want to enorce it. I'm not even sure all card rooms do.

[Machinehead]

Player A can reraise in this situation.

I believe the rule is if B's all-in raise is half or more than the bet/raise, then A can reraise.

In this case Player A raised 3000, and Player B reraised all-in 2500 more. Since B's reraise was more than half of the original raise, Player A can raise again. If B went all-in for say 500 more, then A can only call or fold.

Can someone back me up on this? I'm about 90% sure.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
In this case Player A raised 3000, and Player B reraised all-in 2500 more. Since B's reraise was more than half of the original raise, Player A can raise again. If B went all-in for say 500 more, then A can only call or fold.

Can someone back me up on this? I'm about 90% sure.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, this rule is for Limit Holdem.

[PantsOnFire]

This rule is in Robert's Rules of Poker and there is a good reason for it.

Player C is in effect calling Player A's raise. Player B also in effect called Player A's raise plus put in the rest of his chips which are not enough be considered a full raise. So when it gets back to Player A, he hasn't been raised and he can only complete the partial bet of Player B to continue in the hand, just like Player C did.

In your case the amounts are quite large. But imagine if Player B had exactly 5000, the amount of Player A's raise. Then Player C can call and the betting is over. But what if Player B had 5005 and Player C calls? Does it seem fair that when it comes back to Player A he can reraise again just because Player B made it 5 more to go because he's all in?

So the rule is clear, if Player B goes all in and that doesn't add up to a legal raise amount, then Player A can only call.

[Rocco_835]

I understand where your all getting at, and the rule probably is correct, but under what exact circumstances? What here is classified as real reraise? I was told that since player A made it 5000, the next raise has to be at least half of that to be considered a raise when coming from an All-in bet, which happens to be 7500, the exact amount of the raise in that situation I had to deal with.

Correct? Incorrect?

[PantsOnFire]

In your circumstance, Player A raised to 5000 total. Since the BB is 2000, his raise is 3000. If the next player raises, he must make it at least a 3000 raise or 8000 total. The all in player made it 7500, thus did not make a full raise, he made 2500/3000 or 83% of a full legal minimum raise.

In Limit holdem, you can reraise if the all-in player makes a raise that is 50% or larger. In No Limit, you can only reraise if the all-in player makes a raise that is 100% or larger.

[Machinehead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In this case Player A raised 3000, and Player B reraised all-in 2500 more. Since B's reraise was more than half of the original raise, Player A can raise again. If B went all-in for say 500 more, then A can only call or fold.

Can someone back me up on this? I'm about 90% sure.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, this rule is for Limit Holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just looked it up. You're right, I was thinking of limit.

3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already checked or called can not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.) Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn't fully raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.)