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#41
05-21-2007, 02:18 PM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
[ QUOTE ]
Non-interventionist != Isolationist A party platform for open borders and no tariffs is not isolationist. And any free-marketer who is turned off because the party doesn't advocate the use of a massive govt to force other nations to submit to its wishes is not a free-marketer. [/ QUOTE ] Ayn Randians combine the absolute worst values of corporate capitalism and statist imperialism. They're not against big government. They're against government being used to help the poor. Everything else for them is permissible. Rand said that it's moral for ANY capitalist nation to invade and overthrow ANY socialist nation. But sending poor kids to school? No way! That be violating my freedoms! Just 5 minutes of self-criticism would be enough for any Randian to convict themselves of craven dishonesty. Objectivism isn't even a real philosophy. It's an ad-hoc mish-mash of cold-war catechisms. Ayn is a ludicrous mountebank. 
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#42
05-21-2007, 02:19 PM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] free-marketers are turned off by the isolationist foreign policy [/ QUOTE ] Non-interventionist != Isolationist A party platform for open borders and no tariffs is not isolationist. And any free-marketer who is turned off because the party doesn't advocate the use of a massive govt to force other nations to submit to its wishes is not a free-marketer. [/ QUOTE ] Technically, I know you are correct, but it also makes it even worse. You lose even more people with those stances. It's like being isolationist, without any of the benefits. Like I said, a lot of people support little "l" libertarianism, especially when it comes to their own lives and their neighborhoods. Most people give up on it when you start approaching it on a national and international basis.
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#43
05-21-2007, 02:54 PM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] However, if they continue to study it, they almost always come to the (correct) conclusions that voting is both irrational and immoral and cease to vote. [/ QUOTE ] Don't follow. If I could vote from home I would (and would vote Libertarian), but I'm pretty lazy. [/ QUOTE ] You'd probably be interested in this thread. [/ QUOTE ] Ah! Good times! You should have ninja-bumped it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#44
05-21-2007, 03:09 PM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So I guess my friends and I are simply part of this relatively small number? [/ QUOTE ] Unless you met your friends though some sort of libertarian oriented club, I don't believe you. Young people don't vote very much as is and add to the parlay the 1% of votes that Libertarians get. [/ QUOTE ] I can't figure out what you're saying you don't believe here.
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#45
05-21-2007, 03:10 PM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Non-interventionist != Isolationist A party platform for open borders and no tariffs is not isolationist. And any free-marketer who is turned off because the party doesn't advocate the use of a massive govt to force other nations to submit to its wishes is not a free-marketer. [/ QUOTE ] Ayn Randians combine the absolute worst values of corporate capitalism and statist imperialism. They're not against big government. They're against government being used to help the poor. Everything else for them is permissible. Rand said that it's moral for ANY capitalist nation to invade and overthrow ANY socialist nation. But sending poor kids to school? No way! That be violating my freedoms! Just 5 minutes of self-criticism would be enough for any Randian to convict themselves of craven dishonesty. Objectivism isn't even a real philosophy. It's an ad-hoc mish-mash of cold-war catechisms. Ayn is a ludicrous mountebank. [/ QUOTE ] Have you even read Atlas Shrugged? There is both bashing of government subsidies of the poor and big business, and almost more towards the latter. Rand has a lot of problems, but supporting government to subsidize business is not one of them.
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#46
05-21-2007, 03:18 PM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
Good lord iron81 are you just trying to act stupid?
how many inner city dwellers living off welfare frequent forums? how many backcountry gun slinging hicks frequent forums? how many mailmen frequent politics forums? The most likely age group to frequent forums are college age students. College students have enough spare time to devote time to learning about canidates and the such so they can discover great politicians like Ron Paul. Joe Cable guy just sees the morning paper and as such knows nothing about libertainism. I really hope you were drunk/high when you made this post
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#47
05-22-2007, 04:16 AM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] However, if they continue to study it, they almost always come to the (correct) conclusions that voting is both irrational and immoral and cease to vote. [/ QUOTE ] Don't follow. If I could vote from home I would (and would vote Libertarian), but I'm pretty lazy. [/ QUOTE ] You'd probably be interested in this thread. [/ QUOTE ] Ah! Good times! You should have ninja-bumped it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Anyone else get this message when trying to follow this link... [ QUOTE ] We cannot proceed. Access Denied. Please use your back button to return to the previous page. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#48
05-22-2007, 04:20 AM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Non-interventionist != Isolationist A party platform for open borders and no tariffs is not isolationist. And any free-marketer who is turned off because the party doesn't advocate the use of a massive govt to force other nations to submit to its wishes is not a free-marketer. [/ QUOTE ] Ayn Randians combine the absolute worst values of corporate capitalism and statist imperialism. They're not against big government. They're against government being used to help the poor. Everything else for them is permissible. Rand said that it's moral for ANY capitalist nation to invade and overthrow ANY socialist nation. But sending poor kids to school? No way! That be violating my freedoms! Just 5 minutes of self-criticism would be enough for any Randian to convict themselves of craven dishonesty. Objectivism isn't even a real philosophy. It's an ad-hoc mish-mash of cold-war catechisms. Ayn is a ludicrous mountebank. [/ QUOTE ] Have you even read Atlas Shrugged? There is both bashing of government subsidies of the poor and big business, and almost more towards the latter. Rand has a lot of problems, but supporting government to subsidize business is not one of them. [/ QUOTE ] My exact though.
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#49
05-22-2007, 02:51 PM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
Libertarian ideals have been crushed by mandatory public schooling in the context of other US social trends
Our society has been so infantilized that few believe in accountability and self-responsibility anymore, thus they don't trust their fellow man and/or themselves to live in a libertarian based society. We've become a nation of children. Libertarianism is popular among those that can and do manage their own lives, but don't necessarily feel god-like enough to tell other people what they have to do with their lives. This subset obviously overlaps with a lot of the intelligent discussion boards you frequent.
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#50
05-22-2007, 03:47 PM
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Re: Where are all the Libertarians?
Calm, when I made that post the thread was here. However, after I posted the link the thread was ninjabumped so I moved it to the Mod forum. After the bumper goes away I'll bring it back.
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