way ahead/way behind flop question

[JooWish622]

[ QUOTE ]
If he has A9 or something we have 10 outs to chop.

[/ QUOTE ]

you realize that if its A9, thats more of a reason to check this flop.

think about it strictly... what if his hand is 99 ... betting here is actually incorrect....

[bernie]

Checking the flop looks odd in this situation. What else would you really check this flop with?

Easy bet.

b

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the hand in question.
Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (4.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 8s 5c (two pair, jacks and eights).
Hero has Ah 2s (two pair, aces and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.25 BB. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

You were almost forced into this weak line by playing with such a weak kicker. A2 off in the cutoff... that's even more aggressive than Stox, much more aggressive.

You probably don't gain by betting the flop. If he has an ace you're beat. If he doesn't have an ace or other pair, he's folding. The check at least induces him to bet some weaker hands. But I don't like playing your hand from the cutoff in the first place.

[2p2senseus]

Let's pretend it's A7 OTB, what difference does it make? If villain has A7 we're chopping like 80% of the time(guess)

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
well, I don't like a check unless your opponent is very dumb

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, except change "very dumb" to "somewhat dumb" or "on tilt". This line definitely screams monster and/or weak A, but for non-disciplined opponent, it still makes it hard not to pay off with any pair, especially if villain catches something on the turn. I've used a line similar to this before against an opponent that views me as tight and is much more likely to spew while playing aggressively (hopeless bets) rather than spew passively (bad calldowns).

As for meta-game, in general checking here is bad because so often you'll be betting in this spot with air. If the table is really loose, though, and often playing back hard in blind steal spots, then this sort of play may actually be good for meta game since your c-bets won't work very often and you'll often want to check behind when you miss.

[brick]

[ QUOTE ]
"somewhat dumb" or "on tilt".

[/ QUOTE ]
it's that like half of all opponents?
[img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[brick]

[ QUOTE ]

You were almost forced into this weak line by playing with such a weak kicker. A2 off in the cutoff... that's even more aggressive than Stox, much more aggressive.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the fact that I posted in the CO make a difference. we are investing 1 sb to win 2.5.

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You were almost forced into this weak line by playing with such a weak kicker. A2 off in the cutoff... that's even more aggressive than Stox, much more aggressive.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the fact that I posted in the CO make a difference. we are investing 1 sb to win 2.5.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, missed that. I have to read posts more carefully before responding.

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You were almost forced into this weak line by playing with such a weak kicker. A2 off in the cutoff... that's even more aggressive than Stox, much more aggressive.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the fact that I posted in the CO make a difference. we are investing 1 sb to win 2.5.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think an arguement can be made for raising anytwo cards when first in from the CO and having posted.

[brick]

great book btw. really enjoyed it.