AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement

[zen_rounder]

[ QUOTE ]
The last two months of HH's will not show anything. If he's cheating, he's not doing it on his account.

[/ QUOTE ]if you part own the site or get a huge sponsorship deal maybe u dont care about losing to much. cos you will get it back + a ton more at the other end?

[bronx bomber]

Ibluff, what I am getting at is this. If Mark was cheating, and I say if, this whole thing didnt hit the fan until about a month ago. If you were "using" a superuser, your play would change dramatically from the time you thought it was undiscovered, until the poo hit the fan.
Also, I am really curious if someone could post a 3 yr earnings graph with the date of the Stuckinpigh hand.

[LuckyMux]

Why do people keep saying 'there is no evidence' re: Mark Seif cheating?

There is PLENTY of evidence. Enough to convince a great many experienced poker players already. What we don't have - yet - is proof in the form of incriminating HH.

There is not, as yet, that HH evidence. Right now, that's essentially the only difference between Seif's incident and Potripper.

Ike says, rather disingenuously, that 'there is no evidence Seif could see the hole cards.' Oh no you don't, Ike...

The accusation, made at the time, was that Seif was cheating SOMEHOW while playing on AP. But, to prove it without the HH was impossible - and Seif sure as hell didn't have to release his HH at the time because the very idea of a 'God-mode' was utterly ridiculous, according to Seif's buddies at AP. Hold that thought.

18 months later, it turns out that the method suspected at the time ('God-mode') IS IN FACT REAL. Who had access to it? Why, AP management! And - wow! - Mark Seif is part of AP management...

So what are we left with for Seif's defence now? Can't say God-mode doesn't exist... Can't say Seif isn't in bed with AP... Can't say he didn't say maybe POTRIPPER just got lucky before the HH proved otherwise... Aha! Got it!

"Maybe Seif just got lucky."

And those deleted hand histories would prove it, eh Mark?

(BTW, proof beyond a reasonable doubt is all it takes. If I were on a jury, I think I know how I'd vote.)

[Dima2000123]

[ QUOTE ]
can some start a new cliffnotes thread

[/ QUOTE ]

[FoxInTheHenHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do people keep saying 'there is no evidence' re: Mark Seif cheating?

There is PLENTY of evidence. Enough to convince a great many experienced poker players already. What we don't have - yet - is proof in the form of incriminating HH.

There is not, as yet, that HH evidence. Right now, that's essentially the only difference between Seif's incident and Potripper.

Ike says, rather disingenuously, that 'there is no evidence Seif could see the hole cards.' Oh no you don't, Ike...

The accusation, made at the time, was that Seif was cheating SOMEHOW while playing on AP. But, to prove it without the HH was impossible - and Seif sure as hell didn't have to release his HH at the time because the very idea of a 'God-mode' was utterly ridiculous, according to Seif's buddies at AP. Hold that thought.

18 months later, it turns out that the method suspected at the time ('God-mode') IS IN FACT REAL. Who had access to it? Why, AP management! And - wow! - Mark Seif is part of AP management...

So what are we left with for Seif's defence now? Can't say God-mode doesn't exist... Can't say Seif isn't in bed with AP... Can't say he didn't say maybe POTRIPPER just got lucky before the HH proved otherwise... Aha! Got it!

"Maybe Seif just got lucky."

And those deleted hand histories would prove it, eh Mark?

(BTW, proof beyond a reasonable doubt is all it takes. If I were on a jury, I think I know how I'd vote.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still looking for the EVIDENCE you say is here.
Allegations and accusations are NOT evidence.
Keep trying though, it is entertaining...

[LuckyMux]

You are confusing 'allegations' with 'witness testimony'. Go and read what stuckinpigh, et al, said about that infamous game at the time.

Proof, no. Evidence, certainly.

Even Potrippers HH aren't '100% proof', by the way. Short of a full confession, there just comes a point where the weight of evidence is enough to form an opinion.

One of us is obviously more gullible, or wiser, than the other. Time will tell.

Oh, and Seif initially covering for the Potripper incident when he knew, beyond doubt, he was shilling for something crooked. The actions of an innocent man - or one scared sh*tless?

"Be sure your sins will find you out."

[pen15]

A site which does not keep hand histories on a permanent basis is a site which wants, by design, to destroy evidence of cheating.
If the site does not have all the hand hstories it is dammed, as are all the directors and management.

That's a blank and white issue for me. No if's no but's -

Guilty.

[crzylgs]

All the [censored] part time sam spades and lance itos in this thread need to stop [censored] posting unless they have half a [censored] clue. It's disgracing the good work nat/adanthar and others did to break this thing.

[Injection]

AP plz release another cliffnotes statement to end this degenerating thread.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me first say that I have seen no evidence that Mr. Seif has cheated.

But I can't understand those of you defending him.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a general rule, when your first statement is true, your second statement should be self-evidently false.

I think a good practice in life is to defend those people who have been unjustly accused.

[ QUOTE ]
That lacks integrity. (snipped other stuff, obviously)

[/ QUOTE ]
Even if you believe this to be true, it is not reasonable to trump this up into an accusation of cheating.

There are two separate issues here - your opinion that Mark has behaved in a way that lacks integrity (whatever exactly that means), and accusations of cheating that have no credible evidence to support them.

The accusations of cheating against Mark Seif - which go to the heart of this situation - have no base in credible evidence, and people should stop making them.

The sum total of the accusation against him is that, well over a year ago, there was one hand, which he allegedly open folded on the flop. The source of this evidence is a blog post, which contains no HH, and which the author's view has significantly changed.

2p2 should be a bastion of high quality thinking. The accusation against Mark has no basis in high quality thinking, and until such time that evidence is provided, it should cease.

[/ QUOTE ]

While he may have been unjustly accused of cheating, he has been less than forthcoming regarding his relationship with Mr. Tom and he pretended not to be able to see anything unusual with the Potripper video. In other words, he was completely willing to assist AP in screwing people OR he simply doesn't find someone playing at 90/70/infinity and winning every hand unusual. Its one or the other, and I would thing that the members of your "bastion of high quality thinking" should be able to determine which is more likely. I know I can.

And without writing a treatise on what lacking integrity means, it means something like pretending not to see anything unusual about the POTRIPPER video as a professional poker player, and refusing to acknowledge or explain his relationship with Mr Tom. Again, I would think that most members of this "bastion of high quality thinking" can make there own decisions about Mr. Seif's actions. I know I can.